Would this be career suicide?

[CarinaMarina]

Is it a terrible idea to join a company with a generally poor reputation, even as part of a "fix it" or rescue team?

It has plenty of capital, plenty of backing, and tons of scope to develop and expand - but it has such an unfashionable and vilified business proposition, that even though it is highly profitable and will continue to be, it has a bad reputation in the industry (one which is, very luckily, unaffected by Covid as all comms and sales can be done remotely and will be for the foreseeable).

The bosses at my current firm will either fall about laughing or tell me I'm making a huge mistake if I tell them I'm going there. Part of the role will, however, be about adapting the proposition and turning it all around - at least they are committed to change.

Not sure if it's common sense or my ego making me hesitate. I do realise I am very fortunate to be in this position when so many people are suffering from the effects of the pandemic on jobs, that fact is not lost on me. I am lucky to be in a sector which can continue virtually as normal, thanks to technology.

I hadn't planned on posting again because a PP said they recognised what I did and who I worked for! Made me feel a bit exposed and I spent a few days trawling through what I'd written and wondering if I'd compromised myself or my employer, if a randomer on the internet thinks they know who it is.

But I don't think I have and still - it's not really about them, it's whether to take a rare C-level role with a less than prestigious company, with scarcely any formal process, as a way of getting the experience onto my CV. My DH has gone from being benignly supportive (if it's what you want you should go for it) to being vehemently opposed (you'll end up stressed and miserable and hating it even more than what you're doing now, and the person so keen for you to take it is manipulating you into accepting less than you're worth).

I see his point - he thinks being unhappy and stressed with regular late night phone calls to sort out problems, and carrying all the responsibility, is a huge price to pay for minimal extra cash; when I could remain unstretched (but frustrated at being undervalued and under-utilised with no prospects) where I am. Yet the temptation to grab it as an opportunity is still quite strong. I only have to say the word and I can trigger a conversation with the company, but I'm holding back now. He says he'll support me no matter what I decide, but I suspect a few comments slipping in like "I still think it's a terrible idea" over the next few weeks, and even the odd "told you so" if/when things get difficult in the new role, which they are bound to at times.

But if I were to be offered the other role with the more prestigious company, that is likely to be just as stressful and if anything, more high pressure and more complex with just as many late night and weekend calls - and only for another £5k or so.

Oh I don't know. When he is quietly supportive I want to go for it, but if he's against it because it might affect our peaceful lifestyle (I'm a worrier and likely to fret about work stuff out of hours), I have to take that into account.

I'm a bit late to this thread.

OP, I absolutely get what you say about getting the opportunity for a rare C level job. I am in a similar sort of position, where if the opportunity came I would be keen to take the step forward.

But I would say, don't compromise too much on the salary. A C level role should be paid far more than the grade below as it carries far more responsibility.

You could always say: "I'd love to take the role, but I would need it to be paid at market rate which I understand to be £xxx-£yyy". Obviously xxx should be above the minimum you would actually expect. Also, negotiate a bonus level, if it's normal for your sector.

Op. Few things.

1. a c suite role and a peaceful life do not go hand in hand. If you take on a role of that calibre - it is for a reason. The biggest problems to solve will come to you. Leading on strategy will come to you. It is an immense privilege and responsibility. But peaceful? No.

2. the first c-suite role is critical. Sorry but it is.
   If you take a c-suite role and 6 months in, you leave, it will look (externally) like you were not c-suite calibre and it can actually cause you more harm than good (I went on a course with women on boards and this is a point they hammered home). If you take that first role, you have to know you can sit it out for 18 months.

3. negotiation on salary - it’s your first board gig, don’t think this is something you can negotiate. Any company hiring in a first time board member does so expecting to pay less than an experienced board member. Your negotiations come when you have more experience under your belt. There is an absolute trade to be made for the company getting talent in cheaper, the individual knows it’s a stepping stone to serious levels of wedge.

Wise words both - thank you (particularly your last paragraph Sass, it's what I've been trying and failing to articulate to DH I think, although I didn't know it until you set it out).

It's my DH that wants a peaceful life, i.e me never being distracted or deep in thought or concentrating on work outside of 9-5 hours - he believes that life is for losers.

Personally, I don't mind it at all and find it a buzz, but if its going to make HIM unhappy I need to take that into account, was what I meant.

Hmmm. Sadly I see a number of relationships break down when a woman ascends to this level.
Not so much when a man does.

Personally? I am ambitious. Very ambitious. And I won’t tailor my ambition because of an unsupportive partner. That’s my personal choice and I respect everyone’s need to make the choice that feels right for them.

But think long and hard before giving up your career dreams for someone who thinks 9-5 is all a job is. To me that shows someone not passionate about their work. I’ve never been 9-5.

This role may not be the right move. But the wider convo around a partner supporting you? That’s a life conversation.

I’m c suite. It’s stressful. Is not 9-5. And when we return to a world with a vaccine for covid. I will also be back on planes and away from my children.

Thanks Sass. Yes, I am also very ambitious - this was supposed to be the very last step in my career, to feel that I'd achieved everything I wanted to achieve. I dont have any desire to be C-suite in a big 4 or anything - but I did want to get to that level in a small national firm. I've been hovering just below it for 7 years, and coaching board level personnel for 5 of those without holding the post myself.

No DH is not at all passionate about work - he is skilled but manual, and his goals are to work as little as possible for as short a time as possible - he likes to travel. Nothing wrong with that at all, I respect his desire to keep work bottom of the priority list, but that just isn't how I feel. Much of my self worth (rightly or wrongly) is carried in how academic I am, how successful I am in my career and how revered I can be in my field. I deliberately didn't have children! He just doesn't understand my attitude at all, and as I've stepped higher over the years he has been more baffled at how involved I get and how it isn't as simple as "switching off at 5pm".

On the other hand, he keeps on at me to run my own business and be my own boss so I don't have to answer to anyone - well I did that for a while, and I hated it.

Anyway. I heard back from the other (more prestigious) job, and although I haven't exactly been rejected, neither have I been offered the role. It seems the late entry was a cert, so all the interviews were for nothing really - but the firm appears to be looking at entirely restructuring the original plans, so as far as they are concerned there may still be something for me. But I've been entirely put off by their chaotic approach, so I'm no longer interested. That's the 2nd 3 stage process that wasted my time and effort.

As for this less prestigious one, I'm still torn. Good/rare opportunity to lock c-suite onto the CV and escape current dead end role, vs. minimum 2 yrs of stress and politics for less than market rate with a firm with a mediocre reputation...vs staying where I am and putting up with being a bit of spare furniture and a safe pair of hands.

Feel free to DM me if you wish.
Sorry but he has no right to be ‘on at you’ to do anything. It’s your career, your life and your right to make choices.
I dated someone for a while who would make the odd comment that ‘family is important, a job is just a job.’ That relationship ended, for many other reasons but his comments made me realise this was not a person who was going to help me fly and fulfil my ambitions.
I also found it highly hypocritical that my ‘job’ afforded me a lifestyle/ home that he very much enjoyed. I didn’t see him turning down expensive meals or nice presents.

You need to make a choice. Because if you take this step up, it doesn’t sound like he will be hugely supportive. And it could lead to a real fracture in your relationship. Some men really struggle with successful women. Sad but true.

Also - don’t judge the prestigious firm. Every business is flipping business plans on their heads due to the pandemic. Vaccine news (there is an end in sight) is also changing business plans.
That does not mean they are chaotic. At a macro economic level - there is a lot going on.

Anyway. I heard back from the other (more prestigious) job, and although I haven't exactly been rejected, neither have I been offered the role.
Commiserations. Is there any point in asking for feedback or will it be flannel? Be gracious in defeat, you might value a call-back years down the line.

So we have current job = boring and 'prestigious' = chaotic. Is 'mediocre' sounding more promising by the day?

I think I've twigged re the industry you're in. I'm in it too and have worked in it - and complementary sectors - for approx 20-odd years. Reputation is very important, you're right, but it does depend on where you'd like to end up. Maybe C-Suite in a smaller, less prestigious firm, or a big hitter (but not board level) in one of those top tier organisations. Could you lead a particular area? You'll get challenge and politics aplenty in both, but varying amounts of status.

I appreciate the desire for recognition. I'm currently consulting with one of those bigger firms but in a more junior position than I'm used to. I took it on a whim and to sharpen my practice in a particular area. I'm kicking arse because I'm over qualified for what I'm doing but I do resent the lack of money and status. At the moment though no one is seriously hiring in my specialism. Perhaps other firms might be for yours?

If you’re ambitious it sounds like a great stepping stone to a big job with a better package elsewhere. I think you’d regret not giving it a go

When I was late 20s, I took a fairly junior role at a plc with a bad reputation & egomaniac chief exec/chair/owner.
Great experience, promoted quickly to a role quite different to the one I started in, made director of a subsidiary within a couple of years - and terrific experience of administration and an MBO when it all went down the pan.
Do it!

I keep veering between playing it safe, not doing anything rash and avoiding the horrified reactions of my current bosses at even entertaining the idea of leaving for this firm; and simply going for it, and sod what anyone else thinks.

One of the best and most absorbing jobs I ever had was also my worst - yes there were evenings of misery and plenty of tears when my toxic boss was happy to drop me on my arse (that's what my DH remembers about it obvs), but there was also the exhilarating thrill and roller-coaster ride of never knowing quite what was going to hit the fan next, and the kudos of having a team respecting my opinion and my decisions. I remember the fun part more than the rest.

I think this might be a bit like that - thrilling when things are going well and you're the bees knees, drudgery and misery when they're not and you're the enemy. That's OK, it's part of the job, but I need to be prepared for the lows as well as the highs. One can only hope that the level of arseholery is not too high, but you can't tell that in advance of any new job can you.

DH has backed down a bit but is now saying "Tell them you'll do it for X and no less".

Take the role. As you say you fall at the last hurdle because you don't have this experience - this is the chance to get it.

I have a former colleague who did similar after being somewhat stuck in a rut at my workplace, deeply old fashioned and morally questionable company, she hasn't looked back in terms of it giving her an interesting role.

But if you want more confidence, would you consider speaking to a trusted colleague at work to get their sense ? They may look down on the company but I'd be surprised if they would look down on the role.

Thanks Lofthouse - I do keep thinking of one senior person at my workplace, but a) he's not 100% reliable and would probably spill it to everyone by accident, and b) I've already casually floated it with him ("I wonder if I'd take it if X firm offered me X gazillion £ to be their CTO...") and his instant response was, "Would you bollocks!"

I did some googling last night and the business model is the subject of some fairly scathing forum posts. All fairly out of date, and mostly factually incorrect, but still.

I'm trying to decide how bad it looks on a CV. I mean, nobody rates an MLM do they but would you look down on the employed CTO of Herbal Life? I don't think I would.

I've had a couple of calls with recruitment agencies lately and even grilled them about it. The universal response was mainly about getting the right salary rather than fretting about the public perception of the company.

Well, I went down with coronavirus after my last post so I've had a long time to think about it!

The firm wants to have a call with me and the senior management team about the potential role, but the senior friend who recommended me has urged them to wait a couple of weeks as apparently I still look rough as a badgers arse and am far my usual bright self...

I suppose I should be thinking about what I want to get from the position as well as what I can bring to it. I hope my head clears in the next couple of weeks.