Would this be career suicide?

[CarinaMarina]

Is it a terrible idea to join a company with a generally poor reputation, even as part of a "fix it" or rescue team?

It has plenty of capital, plenty of backing, and tons of scope to develop and expand - but it has such an unfashionable and vilified business proposition, that even though it is highly profitable and will continue to be, it has a bad reputation in the industry (one which is, very luckily, unaffected by Covid as all comms and sales can be done remotely and will be for the foreseeable).

The bosses at my current firm will either fall about laughing or tell me I'm making a huge mistake if I tell them I'm going there. Part of the role will, however, be about adapting the proposition and turning it all around - at least they are committed to change.

Not sure if it's common sense or my ego making me hesitate. I do realise I am very fortunate to be in this position when so many people are suffering from the effects of the pandemic on jobs, that fact is not lost on me. I am lucky to be in a sector which can continue virtually as normal, thanks to technology.

It really depends, it it like you work in high end retail and are taking a job with Debenhams? Or is it more like you work for Cancer Research and are the job is with a tobacco company? Big difference.

ohnothisagain surely the bad rep companies treat their employees nicely and pay them more to offset the nastiness of what they actually do- I mean why would anyone work for a tobacco company if it paid the same as an NGO?

Or is it more like you work for Cancer Research and are the job is with a tobacco company
I did pretty much exactly that. Take home message: Big tobacco is A LOT more ethical than your average charity. Never judge abook by its cover. the cleaner they look on the outside, the filthier they are on the inside. And the ones with bad reputation usually are a lot more ethical (because they need to be).

Because NGOs treat the employees like crap, and you don’t want to know what happens behind the scenes (hint: it usually completely contradicts their ethos). Never ever believe the shiny message. Its usually a lie.

Who would your boss be ? And who is their boss ?
Have you been headhunted or did you apply ? How keen were they to get you and your particular skill set ?

You say they are committed to change but how much control would you have over this change ? And does their vision for this change and how to achieve it align with your own ?

Don’t go there just to a load of dirty work for them, when generally they are ok with how things are.
Also avoid the place if your new boss thinks you’re the bees knees and he’s giving you free rein to manage change, but their own boss has other plans yet to be revealed!

Every couple of years I keep getting approached by the same firm wanting me to join them. The job always sounds fantastic, great pay and benefits etc. But note it’s every couple of years, so staff turnover is high despite all of their assurances that they are committed to turning it around as they know it’s got a toxic reputation.

Unless you really need the job, avoid.

Interesting discussion! I agree with the posters about the "good" companies treating their employees poorly. I've heard terrible things from a few friends working for a bit charity.

Another way of thinking about it: maybe these companies need more "good" people at the top? You'll make more of an impact leading a banks strategy to make more prudent risk decisions than running a charity, for example. These companies need more decent people.

MLM
QuikKash / cashmaggots
Illicitencoutners.com
Vaping or Tabacco
Gambling

Wouldn't be for me...

Energy company (inc oil) Google, Amazon or Facebook- id crack on

Curry’s?.

I had a choice to continue in my role after a takeover, or move (I held 3 separate offers, 2 external and one internal in a different area, one I have experience in).

I decided to stay, but mentally was prepared to leave.we have turned around the approach, but that was because the old guard at the top left and the incoming people have the same mindset as me. Our regulator is happier, as are our insurers,

County Lines - not one for me.
Pawnbrokers - bleh, no.
Big 4 banking - if you must.
Big charity - a racket. Whiffy.
Online porn - no. Brilliant £ but drugs etc.

Fags, alcohol, energy and arms are way cleaner.

It's an interesting question. I would worry that having a shit company on my LinkedIn might make me seem a bit shit by association. I guess it depends on what you'd be doing to rescue them. In a few years time, will you be able to show the results of what you've done?

Have you checked out reviews from ex employees on Indeed or Glassdoor? This might give you a hint as to why the company is so shit or has such a bad reputation.

So the OP was bumping the thread after a short time in impatience, but has now buggered off and not providing any more supplementary info - pffft.

Yeah not enough to go on really.

Depends on the industry, whether its something that could be rehabilitated or is just totally awful, and it depends on your role in the company too.

the op is so vague it makes it impossible to give any meaningful advice

Alright Bootikin, stand down - I had a few things to do!

Appreciate the comments, you're all making it way more exciting than it really is - I have to be a little careful as it could be recognisable, although only to someone in my field I suppose.

Not Sports Direct, or tobacco, or payday loans, or gambling or arms dealing. Someone mentioned MLM - not exactly, but the sales side is structured in a similar way which is precisely why it gets a bit of side-eye. But sales are not in cosmetics or anything like that and there no bots involved. Its just a bit - pyramid like! It's a model seen in the US.

To try and be a bit more specific, the reputation is only really amongst a limited circle of firms, its not exactly a national laughing stock - it's likely no-one has ever heard of it amongst the general public. Imagine if there was a big firm that had worked its way through a series of IT consultants, the consultants talk to one another and there is a collective eye-roll at the mention of this firm's name because they are so set in their ways and have some weird ideas. In that pretend scenario, I'm the current IT consultant battling with them to upgrade their tech properly, but now I have an opportunity to go and join their board as Chief Technology Officer! It isn't IT though...

The culture is not toxic, no. The CEO is very passionate and cares about his people, the CFO is decent, and they've just appointed 2 more women to the board to start the process of change (I know one of them).

Are they ready to change? Yes I think so. There are 2 individuals who could create obstacles, but they are middle managers and at least one would report to me.

I think if the "IT consultancy" (it isn't IT) I currently work for didn't already look down its nose a bit at them (and weren't going to gape at me in horror when I say where I'm going) I wouldn't know any different and would take the job on it's merits and challenge alone...

Have they identified why they've been unable to change up to now? And have they got rid of most of the board members and leadership team who were previously holding them to their old path?

I wouldn't trust them bringing on new people as an indication they are ready to change unless they've got rid of old people and they've put their money and support where their mouth is. If it's a C-level position you've presumably had some time with a board member or two? Do they understand the challenge? Is the budget for change enough? What are they expecting from you and how enthusiastic are they about how you've analysed their difficulties and the path you're suggesting they go down? Is there the commitment to let you change practices and staffing even if it steps on other people's toes? That's the bit that shows where their vision and commitment is. Bringing on a couple of new people is a bit pointless if they're just going to be outnumbered by the old guard.

You sound in your posts like this might be a big step up for you and if that's the case I would find that a bit concerning too. This bit is only relevant if I've read between the lines in your post correctly but if you're being brought in as the CTO (I know it's not actually technology!) and you aren't already CTO at a hugely respected organization with a reputation that will help carry you through a failure, then they likely aren't that committed to change. If the job is a step up for you then they are more likely looking for someone to mold to their corporate culture than they are looking for new leadership whom they will be prepared to follow into new territory. Maybe you have an reputation for innovation and are a rising star who's been tapped for early promotion at your current company, or there is some other reason why an organization about to take on one of the hardest challenges in business is looking to someone who is relatively inexperienced. You'd need to think candidly about that to decide whether it's the opportunity it seems.

Even if they have shown commitment to change, it's still a huge risk. Turning an organization around that has a long history of doing something badly is really difficult. But it would probably be hugely educational and succeeding would be pretty awesome.

Something smelled a bit MLM
about your OP so I’m giving myself a little Well done for kind of getting it right

I’d steer well clear to be honest. Pyramid type selling is never going to end well for anyone apart from maybe a small handful right at the top. Plus there’s all the BS that goes into it and the “ethos” that comes with the recruiting model I.e. “anyone can do anything if you work hard enough!” Yeah right.

Also agree with pp, you are prime position to be a scape goat if it all goes tits up. It could ruin your future prospects.

Well I mean my username says it all.
But - I did something similar - left a very established place That I’d been at for ten years to be part of a “rescue team” elsewhere. I quit after two months - it was horrific and I hated it.

I would steer clear of anything pyramid-y - the leaders are always passionate but that doesn’t stop it feeling scammy.

Hmm I'm certainly concerned about my reputation if it goes wrong. The change won't be in the sales structure - they will never change that, it's the whole premise of the proposition and the model does work, no matter how distasteful.

The change is more around how they manage and supervise the staff, and maybe some of the marketing strategy.

Yes it is a step up - one I've been trying to take for a year or 2, but I keep falling at the last hurdle because I don't have direct experience at that level (only 20 years of directing/coaching people at that level). I'm thinking this might be a stepping stone for that purpose. The person they've appointed to a new operations role is the person I know, they are very senior and recommended me.

I'm worried I'm only attracted to it because it will get me away from the hateful rut I'm in where I am.

Yes it is a step up - one I've been trying to take for a year or 2, but I keep falling at the last hurdle because I don't have direct experience at that level (only 20 years of directing/coaching people at that level). I'm thinking this might be a stepping stone for that purpose. The person they've appointed to a new operations role is the person I know, they are very senior and recommended me.

If they are looking to make huge changes and they are bringing in someone without experience at that level that, all by itself, is a flashing neon warning sign.

You need to give some idea of your level of risk appetite. What are your personal and financial circumstances - do you have children, a mortgage, a partner who is also earning well? Do you have substantial savings you can fall back on? Do you have a good enough reputation and contacts / referees in the wider industry that you could bounce back / survive if this turns into a complete disaster?

If your finances and industry rep are Teflon-strong and you don’t have personal commitments such as young kids then maybe the risk is worth it. But you need to think carefully about both how much risk you’re taking in relative terms (in the context of your circumstances) and your level of risk appetite before you make the decision.