Would this be career suicide?

[CarinaMarina]

Is it a terrible idea to join a company with a generally poor reputation, even as part of a "fix it" or rescue team?

It has plenty of capital, plenty of backing, and tons of scope to develop and expand - but it has such an unfashionable and vilified business proposition, that even though it is highly profitable and will continue to be, it has a bad reputation in the industry (one which is, very luckily, unaffected by Covid as all comms and sales can be done remotely and will be for the foreseeable).

The bosses at my current firm will either fall about laughing or tell me I'm making a huge mistake if I tell them I'm going there. Part of the role will, however, be about adapting the proposition and turning it all around - at least they are committed to change.

Not sure if it's common sense or my ego making me hesitate. I do realise I am very fortunate to be in this position when so many people are suffering from the effects of the pandemic on jobs, that fact is not lost on me. I am lucky to be in a sector which can continue virtually as normal, thanks to technology.

@BoomBoomsCousin

Yes it is a step up - one I've been trying to take for a year or 2, but I keep falling at the last hurdle because I don't have direct experience at that level (only 20 years of directing/coaching people at that level). I'm thinking this might be a stepping stone for that purpose. The person they've appointed to a new operations role is the person I know, they are very senior and recommended me.

If they are looking to make huge changes and they are bringing in someone without experience at that level that, all by itself, is a flashing neon warning sign.

Good point.

OP, what would be the impact on your career if you attempted this step up and it all went wrong?

Would it be better waiting for a more supportive opportunity?

I don’t think it’s a huge warning signal that they’re happy to look at someone who doesn’t have direct experience at a certain level - it sounds like OP is pretty much ready for that step, and sometimes an outside company is more willing to give it that one’s current employers!

Both DP and I made moves to organisations we weren’t 100% sure of (DP was in fact to big tobacco but on a transformation journey away from cigarettes, at least in the regions he’s working in) - it was a money move and while he still plans to move out at some point, the culture, benefits and transformation programme have all been great. It was as they had sold it to him. Just awkward when people ask what he does.

I joined a brand that I’m personally not aligned with. Many are. I’ve had to really adjust my thinking and maintain professionalism - it’s been a good learning. After three years I’m now looking to leave but three years is a decent amount of time - OP, can you set yourself a time frame that is the minimum you’d need to spend there to make some change and get some value? Mine was 18 months originally - again, culture, work/life balance etc turned out to be good.

We don't have children, my DH works but I'm the main breadwinner. If I suddenly stopped working, we'd be screwed - we have some savings but not enough to keep us afloat for long without my salary.

The company won't go under, its sustainable and has been for ten years. They don't want to change the business model or the way they make money, they just need to adapt the support network around it iyswim, to make it more tenable (I daren't elaborate any more).

Going back to my IT analogy, as the new Chief Technology Officer I'd be starting alongside a new, very experienced COO and a Chief Risk Officer, so I wouldn't be alone in instigating new processes etc. The only reason the firm hasn't had people in these positions before is because they didn't know they'd have to - when they worked out of a shed with 4 employees, they thought they could handle the rapid growth themselves and the existing staff could step up. Now they find themselves with a strong (if mildly distasteful pyramid-y) model, five times the size of what they opened with, but they need to start protecting themselves better and get the right people in to do it. I think they're attracted to me because I've already worked with them for 2 years as a contractor, and I know the business. I'm senior in my current role, I'm not inexperienced (I've sat on many boards), I just haven't held the role directly before - I've been a step removed.

And I'm not going to say much more! I really appreciate all the useful input and it's given me food for thought. I'd be going in with my eyes open, I don't think the working culture would be bad - they don't have high turnover of staff and the small number of employees dote on the CEO. I think it would be an interesting challenge and the work life balance would be OK.

I am very conscious that I'm not enjoying my current role though (I feel expendable and worthless, just going through the motions), and that might be making the opportunity more attractive than it truly is. I had reservations when it first came up but its getting to the stage where they want a yes or no. I'm still veering towards the no, but maybe I'm being a snob.

Thanks @LaLaLanded - yes I am thinking 2 years, if I go for it!

I think it depends how serious you think they really are about change; I've been burnt by the old 'oh we really want to change' but when you get IN to the role 'haha! We will never change!' Trick!

Yes, agreed...having already worked with them I know which bits they'll move on and which bits they won't!

Just been reading another thread about someone who switched jobs only to find the new employer less flexible than the old. I have observed a couple of snarky comments from one of the partners about an employee "walking out of a meeting to pick up her kid", and another about someone who was "always out of the door at 5 on the dot or earlier".

It would be 90% remote working but that doesn't suggest much flexibility does it, and I'm not working somewhere where the management have me on a clock - especially if I'm also management! I'd be better off where I am. I don't take the piss but at least I can nip out to walk the dog or go to the chemist, or pack up at 5 if I choose to without fretting. I work earlier and later a lot and my work is always done, but no one is timing me.

I don’t think it’s a huge warning signal that they’re happy to look at someone who doesn’t have direct experience at a certain level - it sounds like OP is pretty much ready for that step, and sometimes an outside company is more willing to give it that one’s current employers!

Hiring someone ready to step up to that level isn’t a warning sign for most roles. But in this case the company is about to embark, according to the OP, on fundamental change to business practice. Hiring an inexperienced c-level officer into a relatively stable position is one thing, but company looking for an inexperienced c-level officer for significant strategic change screams a lack of real commitment to that change unless there is something particular about OP’s career that makes her a better choice than someone with experience.

It's a step up, you don't like your current job, you'd be part of a new senior management team and (presumably) you'll get a pay bump. Go for it!

@BoomBoomsCousin

I don’t think it’s a huge warning signal that they’re happy to look at someone who doesn’t have direct experience at a certain level - it sounds like OP is pretty much ready for that step, and sometimes an outside company is more willing to give it that one’s current employers!

Hiring someone ready to step up to that level isn’t a warning sign for most roles. But in this case the company is about to embark, according to the OP, on fundamental change to business practice. Hiring an inexperienced c-level officer into a relatively stable position is one thing, but company looking for an inexperienced c-level officer for significant strategic change screams a lack of real commitment to that change unless there is something particular about OP’s career that makes her a better choice than someone with experience.

The OP has explained why they want to appoint her - because she's working with the business already and one of the senior management team personally recommended her. Opportunities to step up come rarely enough, even less so "perfect" ones - I'd grab this one.

One way to analyse it OP, is if you were going for your perfect role in 2 years time, would you be better positioned from another 2 years where you are, or 2 years in the new role? And which would you enjoy more in the interim?

Given your financial position and the current economic environment I don’t think I’d take the risk to be honest. It sounds as though you’ve got more push factors than pull factors. How quickly can you save up. A decent cushion? I’d do that then look for another opportunity to move.

Haha thanks @MrsKramer, if I step away from it all this is what it looks like without all the angst and over thinking!

But it warrants a bit of careful analysis. Maybe I'll loathe and despise them after 6 months.

I think the added experience and responsibility on your CV will outweigh any negative impression of the company itself.

I get why it would be tempting.

I don't really feel anything is career suicide, so long as you can back up your reasoning for taking the role and why you're leaving, it sounds like you have experience in more highly regarded companies. They can't write you off on one role.

If you are completely on the fence about it and quite confident they want you, why not tell them your fears? Obv not about leaving but just how much is riding on this for you and the reassurance you need from them.

As someone who's recently joined a company to have the entire job premise/promises cut from the budget, it really is soul destroying and now I'm stuck here with everything going on.

If you got there and it wasn't for you, what's your backup plan? Freelance, return to old job etc? Do you have the personality that can deal with an uphill battle everyday? I don't particularly well and it's been pretty painful to learn.

I think reading your particular situation it might just be the bold move that you need to make so that recruiters take you seriously for more senior roles.

Well, it's all a bit academic now. I'd been asked what I felt the structure should be (for my team) and what the salary level would look like, so I went back with that and an upper level salary which is £20k lower than the average in the UK for that role, but still 25% higher than my current salary to reflect the additional risk and responsibility I'm taking compared to contracting/consulting. I purposely went in high in fact, expecting them to negotiate down a little.

They simply said that's far too much, they won't offer very much more than I'm already on (over here taking no risk or responsibility and free as a bird).

I think that tells me all I need to know - and takes the burden of the decision away!

Is it Amazon.

I was offered a job at two companies some years back. One was a household name company, well-respected. One was a local firm and when I mentioned the name to a colleague, he laughed and said "Not those cowboys." I listened, and took the job with the big company. I was so miserable I considered throwing myself down the stairs to get a few weeks off.

High risk and no pay increase bullet dodged OP.

No not Amazon - way way smaller! Not even a household name.

I've considered that in my current role Zoe, although it's a bit extreme. I just feel at a dead end - no prospects for development, umpteen executive committees brainstorming for change but nothing actually changes, stuck in a rut and hating what I'm doing. I procrastinate all day, can't summon up any enthusiasm, and hardly anybody would notice if I sat on the sofa watching Netflix all day and wiggling the laptop mouse to make me look active. That's not quite true, obviously, but some days I wonder.

It sounds pathetic but I want to be needed, like I did in the days of having a team and they were queuing up outside my office and sometimes the ladies to elicit my great words of wisdom.

Well as the MN saying does, when a person (or company) shows you who they are, believe them ! Lucky escape OP. Now it’s time to make a career development plan to tackle that feeling of ennui.

Yup you're both right floofy and Misandry, bullet dodged.

"Ennui", wow. Must find a way to use that in a sentence!

Er wow, yup bullet dodged, cheeky buggers!

Ennu'wee' or Ennu'i'
Need to know for when I use it!!

According to google it's "on-wee".

Boss; You all right then Carina? (broad liverpudlian accent)
Me; Not really, I'm suffering from the most ghastly fucking episode of en-weeee." (Essex accent).

Ah man, now they're asking what salary I'd take. I feel a bit grumpy that they didn't try to negotiate straight away, but maybe I shouldn't dismiss it out of hand - I didn't actually expect them to instantly agree to my preferred maximum, but I thought there'd be some in between.

It seems they wanted 24 hours to think on it.