to not understand why so many people are against adoption?

[Confusedamonium]

Before deciding to adopt, I'd never really been aware of this but it appears that a huge chunk of society are really, really against adoption - and I just don't understand why.

• SIL thinks children should be in foster care in case their parents change their minds or change their behaviour. She thinks permanently removing a child (no matter how much support has been offered or how long/severe the problems are) is unfair on the biological parents.
• DM thinks that no one can love an adopted child as much as a biological child - despite what we tell her.

People make comments about how cruel it is that children are taken from their parents (to both the children and the parents). Can anyone actually explain why they think it's better that children either float around foster placements or remain in abusive homes? What really shocks me is that foster carers are perceived as saintly carers for innocent souls and adopters are perceived as evil child snatchers. My parents foster and get no end of praise for it but one mention of adoption and people turn frosty.

I think the tedious truth is that people love to judge others' parenting characteristics with whatever ammunition they can muster. You only need to spend a week or two on here to discover that it's unfair, selfish and wrong to have a child if you're over 40, under 20, on your own, in a same sex relationship, in a high powered career, disabled, broke, don't have so many bedrooms everyone can have their own, are planning to send them to boarding school, have no extended family, blablabla. Demonising adoptive parents for imaginary reasons is just another variation on a well worn theme imo.

This is a really interesting thread.

I do know what the OP means, so those snipping at her are wrong. There is both a pro and an anti adoption agenda, to be honest. Both are misguided, imo.

I think adoption can be the right answer, but I also think there are times where birth parents are manipulated somewhat.

The bit about loving is complete nonsense. I do think bonding can be hard, depending on the age of the child, but that’s nothing to do with genetics.

@Gwenhwyfar

" In fact I have even seen suggested on here that people foster in order to earn a living. hmm."

I've heard that in real life too. It's good money for some people. I also have friends who fostered not for money who confirmed it goes on in their experience. It's a type of job isn't it.

There are some bad fostering situations, but I'm not sure that fosters who do it as a job are necessarily worse at it, any more than a doctor or social worker are worse at it because they get paid.

In fact I've heard it suggested by a few former foster kids who were never adopted, that they felt that an orphanage with a fairly stable staff would have been far better than being in and out of foster homes. More sense of place, not living in someone else's home, more stability.

In some ways it could have real advantages to have it as a better paid position. I think there are people who would be quite good at fostering who can't do it because of work commitments, and if it was a job it might create much more stable fostering situations.

For the record, you don't get to maintain an opinion on how other people feel. That's ridiculous. Would you genuinely accept me telling you that you feel happy when you're not - because it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it?!

I'm an adopted child. As is my brother (non-bio) and 2 of our cousins (both non-bio related). Neither of our mums (sisters) could have children. We were and are as precious and loved to them as any bio child could ever have been. We were the gift of children, something they never thought they'd ever have.

Those who trot out the bullshit about 'biology' can go suck a fuck stick. Love is love whether you give birth or adopt. Or in many cases, 'acquire' a child by marriage.

What really astounds me is that anyone could be ignorant enough to actually venture their 'opinion' to either an adoptive parent or an adopted child. But it does happen. I put it on the same level as the people who inquire of an adopted child "Don't you want to meet your 'real' parents?". Um, I've lived with my 'real' parents since I was a baby, thank you very much.

The only thing I'd like to do is thank my birth mother for giving me up. She made the absolute right decision and I have lived a wonderful life with a wonderful family. They made me who I am today. Not biology.

What you're failing to grasp is that your opinion is provably wrong. Your opinion is that you don't believe adoptive parents love their children as much as their biological children. Adoptive parents are telling you that they do love their adoptive children as much as their biological children and you're still maintaining that opinion - therefore, you're calling adoptive parents liars.
Yes, you're entitled to your opinion - but it's wrong and offensive. The fact you're entitled to it doesn't stop it being wrong or offensive.

Have you considered that some adoptive parents may not love their adopted kids as much? It's not hard to find children adopted into families where it is clear to all that the parents don't, and presumably can't, think of them the same way.

It might not be a matter of being completely wrong, so I'm not sure I'd say it's somehow completely offensive that someone might think that way.

@Goosefoot

What you're failing to grasp is that your opinion is provably wrong. Your opinion is that you don't believe adoptive parents love their children as much as their biological children. Adoptive parents are telling you that they do love their adoptive children as much as their biological children and you're still maintaining that opinion - therefore, you're calling adoptive parents liars. Yes, you're entitled to your opinion - but it's wrong and offensive. The fact you're entitled to it doesn't stop it being wrong or offensive.

Have you considered that some adoptive parents may not love their adopted kids as much? It's not hard to find children adopted into families where it is clear to all that the parents don't, and presumably can't, think of them the same way.

It might not be a matter of being completely wrong, so I'm not sure I'd say it's somehow completely offensive that someone might think that way.

Have you considered that some biological parents don't love their children either?!

I have an adult friend who was taken from his abusive birth mother as a young child and adopted by his new parents. It was wonderful for him and his new parents, they have a lifelong love and bond.

If there were more people willing to adopt then maybe more children would be removed from abusive homes.

@AcrossthePond55 I agree with every word you said. I cant see how I could love my children any more than I already do if I had given birth to them. And nobody has the right to tell me I dont love them enough.

You see, it’s comments like ‘a wonderful life‘ I’m not totally sure I am comfortable with.

If we think about developing countries, for instance, or even some poverty stricken parts of the uk, any averagely middle class person could probably offer a child from there ‘a wonderful life.’

That’s really not the point. Removal of a child from his or her parents is an extremely cruel act. There are times when it is needed. I accept that, wholly. It doesn’t change the fact that it is cruel.

It should not be done because one is wealthier, better connected, more stable, better educated. It should only be done when the alternative is worse.

Sometimes that can be difficult to gauge. I don’t dispute that.

Bloody hell OP, that's a shame they think like that. How ignorant.
I think it's an amazing thing to do but not saintly!
I've known people be really down on it too.
When I was at school there was a child in my year who was adopted who was extremely psychologically disturbed. She had been very abused by her bio dad. I guess many of us have known people in similar situations and that stays with you. However I imagine there are more children who are adopted and it's not widely known because there are much fewer issues, or none.
Ultimately you'll come up against attitudes this and will need a thick skin or could go crazy.
People's ignorance can be incredibly frustrating.

@Confusedamonium exactly, some biological parents abuse or neglect their children. In particular it is too often assumed that all birth mothers love their dc - in fact some abuse their dc.

Acrossthepond55 thank you for saying that, I too am adopted and I find it so offensive that people who have fuck all experience of adoption can say they would never be able to love a child they adopted the same as a biological child, my mum and dad (although both now sadly passed ) were my mum and dad and thank fuck they never thought like that , my birth mother only give birth to me my mum and dad give me my lovely life and no I am not special or loved any more just a normal person with a normal mum and dad

There are not many parents, adoptive or otherwise, who do not love their children.

They are sometimes not very good at looking after them. It does not mean they don’t love them.

@Shitzngiggles

That isnt my experience at all. All of my friends and family totally accepted my 2 adopted children. My mum especially is closer to my two than she is her other grandchildren . As for a pp who said adoptive parents cant love their children as much as a biological parent, words fail me. Who are you to say I love my children any less than anyone else. My children could not be any more loved by me and DH or indeed the rest of our extended family. Some of our DC's friends are treated appallingly by their parents, yet apparently we are the ones that dont love our children quite enough according to some people on this thread.

I agree @firstimemamma doesn't have a clue, I have a close friend who has a bio and adopted child and the adopted child is her 'secret' (in a very lighthearted way) favourite. She unequivocally loves her children the same.

firsttimemamma has had a kid and thinks she is the authority on maternal love

[quote Shitzngiggles]@AcrossthePond55 I agree with every word you said. I cant see how I could love my children any more than I already do if I had given birth to them. And nobody has the right to tell me I dont love them enough.[/quote]
Damn straight!

My mum once told me as a little child (after being taunted about being adopted) that I was even more loved. She said "Who loves their bicycle more, someone who can have a bike whenever they want or someone who never thought they'd have a bike then suddenly gets one?".

Made sense to little me, I could relate to getting something you thought you'd never have. And resulted in my telling that child that my parents CHOSE me specially, but his were STUCK with him. His mother was not 'best pleased'. My mum told her too bad, maybe she should have taught her child the Golden Rule.

@Juniperandrage

Ooh, livejournal back in the day! That was an insane bear pit.

It really was! I do miss it a bit though. Nothing quite like the obsessive feuds on lj. They made MN fallings out look tame.

I imagine a lot of people would say positive things about adoption until a close family member is considering adopting. Really you can only empathise with the OP if you have adopted or are considering adopting a child.

Some people see the role of SS and the rights of the child as a threat against them. SW likes to attract a range of people, including single parents and a big part of the training is making sure that the child's interests and needs are paramount, not the parents.

No one wants the parent/child relationship to break down/be unsuccessful, but sometimes it is and the child deserves the best chance at life and that involves adoption and long term care options.

A lot of people see the parents as just needing more support, when all the support in the world wouldn't make life any better for the child and it scares them to think that they could be the ones who lose residency because they believe the stories of snatched children.

It's sometimes pure projection because it's so scary for some people to think that tney don't possess their children.

I've heard people say that Mum and baby units shouldn't exist because it should be upto the family if the baby is kept. Or that teenage hostels shouldn't be allowed. There is a level of wanting complete control over women's choices.

Both my DC have been negatively emotionally impacted by being removed from their birth parents.
However my belief is that they would have been even more negatively impacted both emotionally & physically had they stayed with the birth parents.

Adoption is rarely a 'good' solution to inadequate/abusive parenting.
It can however be the 'least bad' in some circumstances.

@AcrossthePond55

I'm an adopted child. As is my brother (non-bio) and 2 of our cousins (both non-bio related). Neither of our mums (sisters) could have children. We were and are as precious and loved to them as any bio child could ever have been. We were the gift of children, something they never thought they'd ever have.

Those who trot out the bullshit about 'biology' can go suck a fuck stick. Love is love whether you give birth or adopt. Or in many cases, 'acquire' a child by marriage.

What really astounds me is that anyone could be ignorant enough to actually venture their 'opinion' to either an adoptive parent or an adopted child. But it does happen. I put it on the same level as the people who inquire of an adopted child "Don't you want to meet your 'real' parents?". Um, I've lived with my 'real' parents since I was a baby, thank you very much.

The only thing I'd like to do is thank my birth mother for giving me up. She made the absolute right decision and I have lived a wonderful life with a wonderful family. They made me who I am today. Not biology.

this ^

Sorry what? I've never heard this ever.

@fullofhope100

Sorry what? I've never heard this ever.

Yes, I’ve never seen the Beatles performed live either, but I’m quite willing to accept that they did

@foxyknoxy30

Acrossthepond55 thank you for saying that, I too am adopted and I find it so offensive that people who have fuck all experience of adoption can say they would never be able to love a child they adopted the same as a biological child, my mum and dad (although both now sadly passed ) were my mum and dad and thank fuck they never thought like that , my birth mother only give birth to me my mum and dad give me my lovely life and no I am not special or loved any more just a normal person with a normal mum and dad

People can be idiots. But IMHO if someone says they'd 'never be able to love an adopted child the same as a bio', then that's something lacking in them.

Love is love. We each have an unlimited supply of unending love to give to whomever we choose. If we choose to limit that love because of a life circumstance, that reflects on us as individuals.

I have 2 biological children. Could I have loved a step- or adopted child just as much if life had taken me in that direction? Certainly I could have. Because I have an unlimited capacity to love.

I do think the UK will look back on many forced adoptions in the future somewhat like the Irish.
The numbers removed have increased massively agencies are expected to meet numbers