to not understand why so many people are against adoption?

[Confusedamonium]

Before deciding to adopt, I'd never really been aware of this but it appears that a huge chunk of society are really, really against adoption - and I just don't understand why.

• SIL thinks children should be in foster care in case their parents change their minds or change their behaviour. She thinks permanently removing a child (no matter how much support has been offered or how long/severe the problems are) is unfair on the biological parents.
• DM thinks that no one can love an adopted child as much as a biological child - despite what we tell her.

People make comments about how cruel it is that children are taken from their parents (to both the children and the parents). Can anyone actually explain why they think it's better that children either float around foster placements or remain in abusive homes? What really shocks me is that foster carers are perceived as saintly carers for innocent souls and adopters are perceived as evil child snatchers. My parents foster and get no end of praise for it but one mention of adoption and people turn frosty.

@AlternativePerspective you don't have to have contact. We were asked to but my DD doesn't want to see them (she has no memory of them either). Letter box contact was meant to start but the BM hasn't ever sent a letter. DD is 11. We don't think or talk about them from one year to the next. Except on 1 November when we celebrate her adoption day. She takes sweets into school (usually) and we have a special tea!

Point taken However, I haven't heard this before. Really.

The only thing you need to worry about, OP, is the impact your family members views will have on any children you adopt.

You really need to think carefully... and be able to explain to/reassure your social worker and panel.... what lengths you’d be prepared to go to to ensure they aren’t negatively impacted. That may include going no contact.

If you do do that, what does your support network look like?

As for @EmeraldShamrock... they need to do a little more reading. There are no targets to take children into care. Why on earth would there be? Who would benefit? If the answer to that last question (as often is) is adoptive parents, why would a significant proportion of family court and social work time be given over to helping them? For what purpose? Adoption is about finding parents for kids, not kids for parents.

[quote EmeraldShamrock]@SimonJT I am not trying to offensive to you or any adopter.
I am sure it is the right decision for the majority of DC in care but there is questionable evidence with the UK forced adoption process being very quick missing opportunities to help.[/quote]
How long would you personally like a child to be abused and neglected for before they are removed from the care of their birth parents?

Yes, it is questionable evidence, e.g ‘evidence’ with no actual source apart from a new internet randoms.

Genuinely have never heard views before OP. I’ve only heard people not wanting to adopt because of the hoops you have to go through. Or potential adopters maybe not wanting an older child because they don’t think they are equipped to deal with the emotional issues it would entail. There’s not many babies waiting to be adopted these days so having a slightly older child is almost a given - for families that already have children that adds a lot of difficulties to overcome.

The reasons you mention seem a bit strange and judgemental - perhaps you need to widen your circle.

I also think the love adoptive parents must feel for their children must just be so wonderful, intense and unconditional - just not the same as the love a biological parent can have. I just don't think it's possible

Why not @firstimemamma? It's like me saying I love my adopted DC more than you love your birth DC. Daft!

@AcrossthePond55 you were the gift of children. What a beautiful thing to say. I feel so blessed to have been given my DD to love forever.

Out of interest emerald how many chances and how much help do you think feckless and neglectful parents should be given?* None.
I think the "risk of future emotional abuse" needs to be backed up with evidence as these are sometimes an okay parent who need guidance. DC have been removed from functioning DM's with depression without evidence of current abuse only suspicion of "Risk of future emotional abuse"

[quote EmeraldShamrock]@SimonJT I am not trying to offensive to you or any adopter.
I am sure it is the right decision for the majority of DC in care but there is questionable evidence with the UK forced adoption process being very quick missing opportunities to help.[/quote]
That’s not offensive.

Just uninformed.

@EmeraldShamrock

Out of interest emerald how many chances and how much help do you think feckless and neglectful parents should be given?* None. I think the "risk of future emotional abuse" needs to be backed up with evidence as these are sometimes an okay parent who need guidance. DC have been removed from functioning DM's with depression without evidence of current abuse only suspicion of "Risk of future emotional abuse"

Ah, you sound just like my sons BM, she appeared in a ‘classy’ national magazine about her children being stolen from her for because SS didn’t like her.

Funnily enough she didn’t mention the physical abuse, emotional abuse or neglect, I wonder why she failed to mention using them as an ashtray, or force feeding a soiled nappy, or breaking the ribs of a young baby.

Emerald So if a parent has already had 3 children removed for neglect/abuse and their circumstances & attitude haven't changed, you are going to keep the 4th baby there until they are harmed too, rather than pre-emptively removing them?

@Juniperandrage

If they’re adopted young enough at least they’ve got a descent chance of a normal upbringing.

Unless their adoptive parents are abusive arseholes

Well yes of course.... unless their adoptive parents are abusive arseholes.....

Someone I know once said to me that's it's funny how many people think that a parent deserves a second, third, fourth, fifth chance but no one seems to think a child deserves a first chance.

I'm surprised about the negative opinions. I had fertility treatments for 7 years and have been told often to "just adopt". Which actually made me very angry because for me adopting children should be a conscious choice, not some sort of consolation prize. It's a totally different way to start your own family and shouldn't be the choice you make because the other choice doesn't work out.

I have never heard anything negative about adoption. Quite the opposite. I think you must have an odd family or live in a closed-minded area. I heard banjos as I read your OP.

@firstimemamma

"DM thinks that no one can love an adopted child as much as a biological child - despite what we tell her."

I agree fully with your DM but I'm definitely not anti-adoption. I'm very much for it and think it's amazing. I also think the love adoptive parents must feel for their children must just be so wonderful, intense and unconditional - just not the same as the love a biological parent can have. I just don't think it's possible.

I'm entitled to my opinion and can still be in favour of the idea of adoption. It doesn't have to be one or the other surely. Am also happy that loads of people out there disagree with me.

@firstimemamma I’d like to hear from mums who have both an adopted child and a biological child. I don’t think you’re entitled to spew hateful opinions like that without objection when you have no experience of it, and don’t even have anecdotal evidence.

All I know is that when I gave birth to my first child - I was shocked and sad that for the first year of their life I knew that I had loved the baby I had nannied for previously way more. Not even funny the difference. Obviously after time things evened out - but how do you explain that? My only explanation at the time was that love is a combination of connection and sacrifice. I had an instant connection with the baby I was a nanny to - and I also sacrificed for her (12 hour days 6 days a week). I didn’t have an instant connection with my first born but it developed over time after all the effort and sacrifice made, and time spent together. But that’s just my view from my experience.

[quote Shitzngiggles]@TableFlowerss that was certainly true in DS's case. His birth mum was given chance after chance but she just wasnt capable of putting him first. In fact she had four children and they were all put up for adoption. SS do everything possible for children to stay with the birth family but sadly it just isnt always in the best interests of the child for that to happen.[/quote]
Exactly! You hear of these women that have their first born child removed, then go on to have more- only to have them removed (and rightly so) It seems to be the feckless ones that can’t put their first child above themselves, go on to have more.

@RHOBHfan

The only thing you need to worry about, OP, is the impact your family members views will have on any children you adopt.

You really need to think carefully... and be able to explain to/reassure your social worker and panel.... what lengths you’d be prepared to go to to ensure they aren’t negatively impacted. That may include going no contact.

If you do do that, what does your support network look like?

As for @EmeraldShamrock... they need to do a little more reading. There are no targets to take children into care. Why on earth would there be? Who would benefit? If the answer to that last question (as often is) is adoptive parents, why would a significant proportion of family court and social work time be given over to helping them? For what purpose? Adoption is about finding parents for kids, not kids for parents.

I agree with you. In most cases social services bends over backwards to help parents and putting the kids up for adoption is the last option. This system has it’s flaws because it often puts the needs of biological parents over their kids. Like it or not the older the child the less likely they are to be adopted because older kids often come with a whole host of additional needs — if we can put the safety net of adoption out earlier those kids could have a decent chance of being adopted.

I’ll give you my example. I was seriously considering adoption instead of IVF and our authority really loved us as parents (we were told we would likely be placed with children over the age of 10 which was perfect), were being really supportive in our application, and then I met several adoptive mums my age who said they had zero support after the process. One mum was tearing her hair out because her adopted 13 yo had run away to rejoin her biological family and then returned pregnant (from a family member). Social services were the mn involved but it was a real blame game on the adoptive parents.

@EmeraldShamrock

Out of interest emerald how many chances and how much help do you think feckless and neglectful parents should be given?* None. I think the "risk of future emotional abuse" needs to be backed up with evidence as these are sometimes an okay parent who need guidance. DC have been removed from functioning DM's with depression without evidence of current abuse only suspicion of "Risk of future emotional abuse"

Given keeping a child in care costs 6 figures a year, and there is a shortage of adoptive parents, why would a child be removed from a functional parent?

Given social services don’t comment on their ‘side of the story’, how do you know that the parent was ‘only’ suffering with depression?

I have a close family member who have adopted a little boy, he was initially in a foster placement before they eventually adopted him, she had unexplained infertility and didn’t want to proceed with IVF, their son is a happy boy and thriving in their care, far from the life he came from. His biological parents have the option of sending a letter once or twice a year and they are encouraged to send a letter back to his biological parents but they have not received a letter to date, however she and her partner still send them a letter. It’s a very personal choice, some people are comfortable with it but others are not and it’s all dependent on your own beliefs and experiences.

@3ismylot

I am adopted and I personally have a very bad opinion of adoption, but I know that it is because of the horrendous experience I had. My adoptive 'parents' were abusive and never let me forget that I was adopted, I have been NC with them for 6 years and it has taken a lot of therapy to get over what happened to me. I have also traced my biological parents (My Mum 13 years ago and my Dad last year). The relationship with my Mum has been rocky at times but the love is definitely there, we just both have sensitivities about what is normal, the relationship with my Dad is amazing and I truly regret not tracing him sooner. I see my Bio parents as my real parents and always will so I don't disagree with the terms myself but I would use Birth parents when talking about others situations as I know my view is due to my experience. I do think that adoption needs to be even stricter and that there should be a long settling period before its permanent because the right combination is essential, especially when the children are from a vulnerable situation and already have feelings of rejection etc. What hurts me the most is my Birth certificate and I would love to have my original reinstated but its not possible

I’m sorry you had a difficult time, must have been horrendous. I would like to think that the majority of adoptive parents aren’t abusive and I’m sure that’s the case.

It’s great that you’ve got a relationship with your birth parents now, but with all due
respect, feeling they love you isn’t the issue.

I’m sure the love would always be there from birth parents to some degree, but loving a child isn’t enough if you can’t keep them safe, put their needs above your own, do what is best for them.

I suppose it’s like when my 12 year old moans that I make her go up to bed at 9pm on a school night and that I won’t let her eat 3 bags of crisps in one day. She thinks I’m ‘mean’ but I’m doing it for her benefits, although she doesn’t fully appreciate it at the moment.

From my experience you’re right- but I don’t know the reason why! I’ve spoken to many different people about considering adoption, and only had a positive response from one. I was surprised at how many people seemed to be quite opposed to the idea of adoption! I think most people are misinformed. I mean unless they’ve done extensive research into it they are misinformed no matter what they might think.

OP, Your SIL clearly hasn't ever read anything abut attachment disorder.

I used to be in favour of doing everything possible to support chaotic parents, but once I had a child I quickly came to believe that children should be adopted as early as possible once it is clear that the birth mother is not a capable parent. The needs of the child are paramoun and immediate.

Your mother lacks empathy.

God, people are so stupid about adoption. And naïve too, about adopting older children. Who have issues. But think that showering a child with love will instantly eradicate attachment disorder and a range of issues that arise from having survived abuse and neglect. I remember a thread form years ago when the advice given to people adopting Romanian orphans was to be low key and slow but steady and not buy them tons of stuff and rush about taking them to EuroDisney, and lots of people couldn't see the issue and were just blithe.