If you WFH what time should you start work?

[EatPrayYoga]

If official hours are 9-5, is it a problem if you are not logged on by 9 every day?

I'm a team manager and one person on the team consistently logs on after 9 am. I know because our system shows a green or other colour next to everyone's names in an email so if I email the team I can see who is online and who isn't.

I usually send an email in a morning to confirm any things to be aware of for that day including who is not working that day and who is covering their work.

He usually logs on at about 9.05 but I'm not sure whether to mention this as he is only slightly late. He is in a junior role but wants to progress. There are other people in the same role who start work earlier than 9 to get things done so he stands out as doing less though I can't say who does more or less work in a day as their work is delegated by different members of the team.

I also realise we are in difficult times. He lives with parents and has no children or pets but I believe there are other adult siblings do not sure how easy or difficult the WFH circumstances are.

IABU to be unimpressed?

I am so, so grateful I don't work in an environment like this.

Hmm I do think you have a point ,
On one hand 5 minutes is neither here nor there if he works efficiently during the day .
But it does add up , I had a colleague who was always a couple of minutes late and I mean always every single day . Her argument was so was a lot of the staff but she never made that time up and she went for a smoke break twice a day .
It's difficult wfh because you can't necessarily see how much work someone is doing .
When I've wfh my wi fi has dropped a few times, I've had our IT to remotely log in more than in the office but I start earlier and finish later because I'm not doing the commute .
It's all about balance if someone is logging in 5 minutes late but is productive then it wouldn't bother me if not then definitely say something because it's sound more like a work ethic.

Just seen your posts with more detail re the role and his performance. If it's a professional job where overtime is often expected then I don't think you should get hung up on start time in and of itself. I used to work in the city with contracte shouts 9.30-5.30 but never left before 7. It was very much the norm for people to come in late but that was fine because the reality was when you worked didn't matter as long as you were doing what you needed to get done. I would speak to him more about expectations of juniors who want to progress and the problems with his performance generally. You could have a conversation with him about working hours in relation to that but I think it's important to focus on the hours in general rather than start time e.g. if someone else is generally working 8-5, then there's nothing wrong with him doing 9.05 to 6. I'm finding it hard to imagine what type of professional job this is though where you hand out tasks day by day so maybe that advice isn't appropriate.

And you've been on Mumsnet for 2 hours during the working day? You're a manager in a professional setting? Bit of pot kettle black there, OP.

I'm sitting in a home submerged with work products, my personal mobile is being used for work calls. Working from home requires give and take by all and I think you're being unreasonable.
Has your work place clearly stated to all employees that they have to be logged in by 9.00am. Is his work entirely computer based, could he be on telephone calls for the few minutes you're referring to?

Yes he is 5 mins late every day but he probably isn't spending time on Mumsnet during the day either.

Some people are taking the piss. You are not. Ring unreasonable and absolutely flag it.

Nip it I’m the bud now. I’ve found that the longer I’ve left it the later they log on/earlier they log off/longer lunch is.

@LazyLucille

Yes he is 5 mins late every day but he probably isn't spending time on Mumsnet during the day either.

My hours are 9 to 5 but I’ve been working 8 to 8 since the pandemic. Spending some time on Mumsnet doesn’t take away from the additional hours I’m working.

The thing is tho as pp have said it could take his laptop 5 nins to get logged in. So he could very well be sitting down for 0900ready to go.if thats the case then of he was coming into the office he wouldn't be late because he'd be in at 0900

I couldn't get bothered about 5 nins tbh. And I think he's perfectly within his rights to clock off at 5pm.

I am on annual leave today but working as I have a few things to do so I think it's fine I'm on mumsnet!

I posted about the time because I know the other things require performance management but I am not sure about the start time. People clearly have different views even within my organisation.

Please. You want him to start early. He is entitled to switch on his computer at 9:00am when he gets to his desk, his contracted start time. If it takes 5 minutes for it to go through it's 'on' cycle, that's not his problem it's yours.

And to be actively complaining that he gasp leaves on time most days, logging off at his contracted time of 5:00pm.

People do have lives outside of work.
People do have other commitments.
People should not have to work for free on their own time.

It doesn't means he's not committed to his job; it means he has boundaries about his work/life balance, as we all should.

To be clear he does not work late so I'm not asking him to start bang on 9 when he works until 6 or 7.

The place where I work is a good employee and relatively flexible of the places I have worked. He is welcome to find another job or work in a different field. This is not an admin job or job where you only work your hours. A bit more is expected.

I accept that maybe I should not mention logging on late for now but the people sometimes working late and not getting paid for is normal for this type of role.

BTW I do come on Mumsnet sometimes during work hours too so I'm not going to say I don't!

Depends. It takes for us a while to log on properly remotely and in all fairness even in the office most people weren’t ready at 9am but arrived at 9am and started the computer and got a cup of tea.

If a meeting is scheduled than yes, all should be up and running at the start time.

I found that on most days I am actually logged on earlier but I don’t “advertise” myself as online until, 9am, purely so I can get stuff done and not being harassed by chats and calls.

You're being niggled by the 5 minutes late, but your further answers have made clear that he has massive performance issues, the lateness is just a symptom.

Manage the performance - make it clear to him that having his performance impact on his colleagues is not sustainable. Share this with your own manager and tell the employee he'll be on a formal PIP if he doesn't get on top of things.

His colleagues having to cover for him - when they may have much more constrained circumstances - is bad for morale, and your own reputation will suffer if this isn't addressed.

And I'm sorry to be blunt, but that this guy thinks he's on a promotion track suggests you haven't been anywhere near honest enough with him.

Either that or he's spectacularly un-self-aware, in which case you need to burst that bubble pronto.

He is in a junior professional role. He is expected to work beyond his usual hours sometimes. We all are. Those who are training tend to want to impress.

attitude of "I am not working beyond my contractual hours" does not work in this profession and to start our with that attitude when you are not even qualified yet and don't have any children etc requiring you to be elsewhere is not a good start.

But maybe it should work.

Maybe that's the problem with so many employers who want their employees' lives to be all about work.

People work to have lives; they don't live to work.

And employers will replace an employee in a heartbeat to protect the bottom line; there's no real loyalty there. But they expect it the other way round. Wholly unreasonable.

If there had been an approach to work different hours, say to take children to school, I think it should have been considered and accommodated for.

The person described by the OP just seems to be a person with poor timekeeping, one of a number of symptoms of poor performance. So should be tackled.

Management micro managing people WFH for logging in at 9.05 is the type of thing that breeds resentment and causes people to leave...

Just a thought but is his clock synced to yours ie does he think he is logging on at 9 on his clock but its 9.05 on yours? Perhaps its time for a 1:1 meeting to raise all your concerns and see if anything can be done to help him improve. If hes not aware of issues and given time to improve not very fair. Also I do feel for people in junior roles having to learn a job WFH with perhaps a lot less guidance than if in office so perhaps how you train needs adjusting to suit WFH.

You sound like a delight. It's funny how employees should always start early but finish late (and preferably work weekends to progress).

Also, I knew someone who used such trial issues to back up her irrational personal dislike of certain people in the team. Maybe that's the case here?

If your on AL then why are you doing any work?
It's crap like this that make things become the norm like working over your hours on a regular basis for free.

@yvanka

Does he produce the same amount of work as other team members?

This is the thing - and the only thing - that matters. I managed teams for years. As long as the work was done and they were meeting their objectives, it was pretty much Liberty Hall. Treat people like adults and they usually respond accordingly. Five minutes is neither here nor there.

I get he doesn't work til 6 but is it 5 or 5.05? Do you notice? It could be his clock

Trivial &