If you WFH what time should you start work?

[EatPrayYoga]

If official hours are 9-5, is it a problem if you are not logged on by 9 every day?

I'm a team manager and one person on the team consistently logs on after 9 am. I know because our system shows a green or other colour next to everyone's names in an email so if I email the team I can see who is online and who isn't.

I usually send an email in a morning to confirm any things to be aware of for that day including who is not working that day and who is covering their work.

He usually logs on at about 9.05 but I'm not sure whether to mention this as he is only slightly late. He is in a junior role but wants to progress. There are other people in the same role who start work earlier than 9 to get things done so he stands out as doing less though I can't say who does more or less work in a day as their work is delegated by different members of the team.

I also realise we are in difficult times. He lives with parents and has no children or pets but I believe there are other adult siblings do not sure how easy or difficult the WFH circumstances are.

IABU to be unimpressed?

[Crinkle77]

Get a grip OP.

[lottiegarbanzo]

He needs to know how this looks to others and that it is noticed.

He sounds like someone who might game the rules though, so he'll be logged on but not do any more work. That's a bigger but different issue.

[ConstantlySeekingHappiness]

@Rainb0wDrops

Maybe he makes up those 5 minutes by not taking breaks throughout the morning to post on Mumsnet?!

Quite!

[WhereverIGoddamnLike]

I never understand the people who say that 5 or 10 minutes is probably how long it takes for his computer to turn on and connect.
That doesnt matter. If you start at 9 then you need to turn your computer on 10 minutes in advance. Anyone who says "but he doesnt start getting paid until 9 so he shouldnt have to do anything before that," did you apply the same logic to a commute? Not being paid until 9 so dont leave your house until 9?

When you were all working in the office, would you then up at 10.30 and then say "well, that's how long my commute takes and I start at 9 so that's when I leave my house"

If he starts at 9 then he needs to be ready to start at 9, so has to have everything turned on and ready for his start time.

[GrumpyHoonMain]

We had a similar situation at work and my then boss raised it with the person concerned, only to find that when he tried to contact others when they allegedly started (or finished) none of the others were at their desk. It actually turned out that the person doing 9:05-4:55 was far more productive.

So only raise this if you are 100% sure the quality of the others’ work is beyond reproach — in your position I would be monitoring the person who starts before 8. Nobody starts that early to get work done if they’re capable and doing the hours they say they’re doing. A lot of people who start early do swan off during the middle of the day so you need to watch out for that

[Tyzz]

Two things strike me here.
Firstly as his line manager you should know whether he is doing as much as colleagues and whether the quality of his work is as good or better than colleagues. If so then the time is irrelevant. However if an issue if it bothers you and creates a bad impression in your company culture you should tell him. It's unfair to have such a gripe about performance and not actually tell the person.
Secondly he is young? Living with parents. So his first job? Did he work in the office before wfh? If so how is his performance different.
Its not unreasonable that he has no idea what importance time keeping is if he's never been told. Have you spelt out to him that to progress he has yo do more than is asked of him?

[Gwenhwyfar]

5 minutes late? Seriously, what a pedantic, petty manager you are!
I'm glad I don't work for you.

[Weirdwonders]

If you’re working while you’re posting this, YABU

[Gwenhwyfar]

"Anyone who says "but he doesnt start getting paid until 9 so he shouldnt have to do anything before that," did you apply the same logic to a commute? Not being paid until 9 so dont leave your house until 9?"

Not the usual commute no, because you know it when you take the job, but if you have to travel elsewhere then yes, if you have to start at an earlier time you should get that time back.

[12in21]

@Rainb0wDrops

Maybe he makes up those 5 minutes by not taking breaks throughout the morning to post on Mumsnet?!

Yup.

[Benjispruce2]

Yanbu. You should be ready to work 10 minutes before at least. I’d mention it as in, “Can you ensure you start to log on so you’re ready to go at 9.”

[Alez]

I think it's fine. As others have said, it may take 5 mins (sometimes it takes my computer longer!) to log on. That is part of the working day as far as I'm concerned.

[enjoyingscience]

Urgh, I hate this attitude. It’s the 21st century, and as long as the work is being done I couldn’t give a fig if my team are online at 9am or not. I care that they are productive.

I had a team member once at an old job who would make a point of clocking in and then going to make breakfast and have a chat with his mates. He was always the first to claim his time in lieu and flexi, and honestly, I really thought he was back of the queue for progression. He was old school though, and thought turning up at 9 on the dot was all that was needed.

[Benjispruce2]

You can’t argue with that. Hate poor time keeping but it divides people, particularly on MN.

[cologne4711]

@Strugglesjob

Oh right, so you’re expecting unpaid overtime as standard?

And then moan about logging on 5 minutes late...

Quite. Time this chap found a new job with a kinder employer, I think.

[canigooutyet]

lol it's not the op that is micromanaging anyone. It is the system used by her bosses.
Not everyone works with Teams.

Other industries log everything - the op could be seeing when they are idle, when they are working, on breaks etc.
Many also have some equivalent of keystrokes.

When people are working beyond their paid hours questions need to be asked.
Is it the individual who cannot cope with their load, is it more staff are needed etc. Ime, those who work later on an ongoing basis are also underperforming due to.... and it's down to the manager to find out why.

[amusedbush]

I worked with a guy like this. He had no interest in doing a good job, all he cared about was progressing and increasing his salary.

He came in at a very junior level, turned in really sloppy/late/incorrect work, would quickly click off the internet every time someone walked past his desk and he put in a request for flexible hours simply because he didn't want to wait 30 minutes for his train home (young, single guy living at home with zero responsibilities).

He rode the coat tails of people around him and was very good at networking so he stayed in a role just long enough that he could bluff his way through an interview and has risen through the ranks. However, he is now in my old job and I've been told dozens of times that he's hopeless and can't handle the role at all. It didn't matter so much when he had people above him to cover his arse but now he's in the spotlight of a senior role and his mistakes have serious consequences.

As his manager you should bring up the poor standard of work but if he doesn't want to put in the effort, eventually it will be noticed by the big wigs. Charm can only take you so far in an organisation if you can't do the job.

[Benjispruce2]

Those that think it’s ok to be late daily, at what point would you say something? 10 minutes, 20 minutes?

[itsovernowthen]

@EatPrayYoga

His work otherwise is lacking and there is a general impression of not putting in enough effort or missing deadlines. If I ask for something by a certain time it is often late. There are often basic mistakes.

He is often late to meetings or forgets we have them. I have to say "are you coming to the meeting?"

It's not just the log on time but maybe I should put that aside and focus on the other things that are an issue.

He is behind on work so there is a problem and at least one other person doing the same role gets more done and in a shower yet time and he is no exceptional.

These are the points you should focus on addressing with him. 5 minutes late is not the cause, it's a symptom, of his less than stellar performance.

[WhereverIGoddamnLike]

@Gwenhwyfar
That has bo relevance here whatsoever.

You take a job, you start at 9. You make sure you're in the office and working at 9. Your job moves to working from home, then you make sure you are logged on at 9. Not just turning your computer on at 9.

He hasnt been shipped off to another office. He is, in fact, a lot better of because he has zero commute. If you actually think that working from home should allow him to claim back the time it takes his computer to turn on then you are ridiculous.

[Brighterthansunflowers]

Don’t do what a PP suggested and send a nagging email to everyone! That’s just a sign of poor management and only pisses off the 99% of people who aren’t taking the piss, while the 1% it actually applies to won’t take any notice. If you have a poor performer on your team then follow your organisations process to actually manage that.

[SuzieCarmichael]

I think you need to be clearer in your communication with him in these one to one sessions. I suspect you are not spelling it out to him. You need to say it very clearly. ‘There are some aspects of your performance that are not satisfactory - timekeeping abs task management. You log in late on a regular basis and you are not putting in enough hours. As a result other colleagues have to take on work that you should have done because you have not finished previous tasks. These areas of your performance require addressing.’

[WokesFromHome]

DH has the opposite problem. Expected to start conference calls at 8am and still doing them till 7.30/8pm

[SuzieCarmichael]

*and

[ButamIbothered]

I would ask HR for a steer on how to manage conduct issues during a pandemic when staff are working from home. Your organisation has a duty of care and mental health of employees should be at the forefront. If you pile in without any knowledge of this persons situation working from home that would not be good.