To bin the old-fashioned racist doll? *title tweaked by MNHQ*

[MrsBonnie]

Please excuse the offensive term.

My daughter was gifted a very old doll from my husband’s great aunt. Said aunt is in her 80s now and said that the doll held special memories and she wanted DD to have it.

I don’t want to have the doll in the house, but don’t want to offend the aunt by saying we don’t want it. She does come round from time to time, so there’s a risk she’d enquire after it if she was round. WWYD?

I hope that they are kept in museums and yes, even in people's lofts. It's certainly a part of our history that we are grateful to have moved beyond now, but burning or sending the dolls to landfil doesn't serve in my opinion. Keep the dolls, research and understand how they were considered normal and how society got to a point that they weren't. Use the doll to tell our social history - not because we are proud of it, but because it is so bloody important to know and to understand. Remember when the Colston statue was toppled and everybody was shouting that it should be in a museum not in the street? We shouldn't forget history, even when it's ugly and oppressive. We have a responsibility that the way we tell history is decolonised, and museums are going through massive processes of change around that. But we keep the artefacts and we tell the stories. That's important. Tell the stories like that of the poster who was humiliated when her teacher read little black samba. Tell your daughter the stories of the world her grandmother lived in that meant that she saw it as a much loved toy. Tell her about the human zoos (all in an age appropriate way/time). Help her to understand why the BLM riots happened in London not just USA in 2020. The dolls can tell part of the backstory.

@Queenoftheashes

I know they’re not ok but I can’t help feeling sorry for the golliwogs. It’s not their fault they’re racist caricatures and I loved mine in the 80s too. I can’t quite reconcile myself with stuffed toys not being alive though.

You feel sorry for the dolls because it's not their fault they're racist?

But you have no empathy towards black people, such as myself?

I remember seeing these for sale in a vintage toy shop in Cornwall, they were brand new though, felt incredibly uncomfortable seeing them.

I had one as a child but obvs never kept it.

I've got a golly that was my grandmother's childhood toy. It's not out where anyone could see it, but I keep it in memory of her in the same way I've kept a beautiful Victorian china doll that was hers too. Simply possessing a golly doesn't make me a racist.

Let your daughter have it and play with it. It's just a doll. We attach too much meaning to inanimate objects. Explain to said child about this though, about why they can be deemed to no longer be acceptable. You can't bin a point in history because we no longer like it. It makes more sense to acknowledge it and why we moved on.

@ArtichokeAardvark

I've got a golly that was my grandmother's childhood toy. It's not out where anyone could see it, but I keep it in memory of her in the same way I've kept a beautiful Victorian china doll that was hers too. Simply possessing a golly doesn't make me a racist.

Exactly.

The giver in the OP is 86 and wanting to give a toy that she loved and and still does after all those years. It's a meaningful gesture of generosity and love from her and to throw the toy in the bin would be downright cruel, as well as unnecessary.

Someone of her age does not need to be preached at either, and told that for 80 years, loving that doll had been racist of her.

Quietly put it away. Owning it does not make you racist OP and its presence will not contaminate your home. Its existence where no-one will see it causes no offence. Hurting your grandmother on the other hand, would be damaging.

My mum knitted me one in the 70s when I was a little girl ! Omg time moves on and you realise it's so inappropriate.
My mum is the least racist person , it was just a craze like trolls or pokemon ( yes I know GW had sinister roots but not many people were aware of that)
Now we are horrified about that doll !
Things move on and personally I would be honest about it , it's no longer appropriate in today's world .

@updownroundandround

I think you should keep it, but only for 'historical' value.

It is part of history, like real fur coats etc and although should obviously never be made again, things like this DO have a place in education and museums etc, just like the tools of torture, the 'scolds bridle' , the stuffed and mounted bodies of animals and the World Wars exhibits etc

We need to learn from the mistakes of mankind, not destroy them and pretend they never happened.

Agree.

@Marmitecrackers
Let your daughter have it and play with it. It's just a doll. We attach too much meaning to inanimate objects

It's just a doll? Have you read the thread, to see why it isn't "just a doll?"

It's precious to your 80 tear old Aunt with happy memories

These days people recognise them as racist

Aunt wants your DD to play with it.

"I'm so sorry Aunt, I know it's precious to you with lovely memories but nowadays they are seen as racist charactures. We can't give it to DD to play with because she will be criticised for it by others, upset and it sends confusing message as this is her generation who don't play with this type of doll. I'm sure you understand. We've put it in a nice bag for you to take back snd keep safe at your place, "

Let your daughter have it and play with it. It's just a doll. We attach too much meaning to inanimate objects

Would you say the same about Nazi memorabilia?

[quote Quaagars]@Marmitecrackers
Let your daughter have it and play with it. It's just a doll. We attach too much meaning to inanimate objects

It's just a doll? Have you read the thread, to see why it isn't "just a doll?"[/quote]
You're mistaking, I think, in assuming that people who say it's just a doll don't understand that it has baggage.

For many people, an item having baggage still doesn't make it more than an inanimate object. It doesn't become a contaminant of some kind. The ideas or events around it in the past don't change whether you keep it or get rid of it.

Many people also don't believe that it's the objects themselves that are the problem, but people's ideas and beliefs, and the former doesn't cause the latter but it is the latter that infuses the former with problematic meanings.

It almost seems to be a basic personality difference in the way people understand things, though I am guessing there is some cultural element as I've noticed that different cultures tend to differ as to whether more people think one way or the other. (And no, as far as I can see it's not white people particularly that are more likely to think that the objects themselves are just objects.)

Get rid and tell the gifter why. Times change.

We need to learn from the mistakes of mankind, not destroy them and pretend they never happened.

Right like all the people with Gollies at home sit around looking at them and contemplating the mistakes of mankind

@Devilesko

If anyone does want their racist dolls/figurines gone, why not sell them and give the money to charity. An against racism one would be ideal. I tried to find one but couldn't so gave to Sally Army instead. They have no idea where the money came from and have no guilt receiving it. Or, if it was a memory, it's not like they are being displayed and seen often. You could sell them and buy something as a reminder of your loved one. I'm so glad mine have gone, even though I had happy memories playing with them as a child.

“Why not sell them and give the proceeds to charity?” Maybe because sending them out into the world to the people that want them perpetuates the problem?

Don’t let old ladies give them to children. Destroy any that fall into your hands, whether that be as “gifts” or via probate. Simple.

Yeah I'd bin it those are awful. What are we supposed to do just hide them till everyone dies out?

@madcatladyforever

I would pit it on a box in a cupboard somewhere until your aunt is no longer with it then gift it to a museum. Mt grandpa left me a whole series of books.....I can hardly bear to say it.....called Little Black Sambo. The books were very sweet stories but there is no way on earth I am having that title on my bookshelves in the house. Even my sister who is black/mixed race has never seen them. They are antiques so I'm currently ringing round museums to see if they want them. I think we need to learn lessons from history. Not erase it. Mind you having said that let's hope I dont die because my sister is an executor of my will and I can only imagine the WTF moment on her face if she found them.

my mum had these as a child, and we read them all as children.

It is sad because they were favourite books of hers, because, as you say they were sweet stories - I still remember the boy tricking the tiger to run round and round the tree and so on.

But the books are based on such a racist premis.

My mum had the same problem as you, what do we do with them? It seemed wrong to just chuck them. My mum was a teacher who trained at Cambridge. She donated them, and a whole stack of other Victorian children's books (some of which were very odd) to her old college as they have a library of old children's books to track the historical changes in children's literature. Seemed like a good place for them.

It was such a different world. We had no idea that Gollies represented black people. In Enid Blyton books, alongside Noddy and Big Ears, why would we?

I was a child in 1970s and never thought twice about Gollies, I desperately wanted one of the Robinson's badges. I didn't really get the whole anti Gollie thing for ages - they're just dolls aren't they? Found memories and all that.

Then, (years ago now) I heard Lenny Henry being interviewed. He must have been quite a new/up and coming comedian at the time. He talked about being called a gollywog as an insult in the playground, and what that meant. He talked about what the Golly dolls mean to him and the other black kids he grew up with.

And he asked, very gently, if we as a nation could make the choice to get rid of them once and for all.

It was very moving and I was ashamed for myself, and for all like me who hadn't got it, who kept excusing them, and who took not action against them.

I understand the desire not to throw it away. But it would be in the attic, boxed up, until the Aunt had died. And I woudl be explaining to dd why.

It was the most moving interview, and

sorry, extra sentence at the end there.

It was such a different world. We had no idea that Gollies represented black people. In Enid Blyton books, alongside Noddy and Big Ears, why would we?

Are you seriously comparing Gollies to Noddy? Noddy looks like a boy with a funny hat, Gollies are racist caricatures. Is this contrived blindness?!

It is worth remembering that, while you may find it distasteful, it was clearly much loved. You are quite within your rights to say "actually my daughter really isn't into dolls and it wold be a shame to put such a treasured possession in a box in the attic, so, on second thoughts, we think we should give it back to you." She might then give it to someone else or hold onto it until she has gone. Failing that, a charity shop.

We never faced this precise situation, but we did get a whole load of John we didn't want offloaded onto us by elderly relatives - old fashioned non-dishwasher proof china for example. I kept it all in the attic until the relatives died then took it to a charity shop. If the doll is truly very old then it might be desirable to some collectors who lack your foibles. You could auction it or give it to a charity shop to auction so the money goes to a good cause.

@Cadent They are in the original Noddy books.

sorry that should have read junk not John. Not collectable junk sadly - no Art Deco crockery in there.