To bin the old-fashioned racist doll? *title tweaked by MNHQ*

[MrsBonnie]

Please excuse the offensive term.

My daughter was gifted a very old doll from my husband’s great aunt. Said aunt is in her 80s now and said that the doll held special memories and she wanted DD to have it.

I don’t want to have the doll in the house, but don’t want to offend the aunt by saying we don’t want it. She does come round from time to time, so there’s a risk she’d enquire after it if she was round. WWYD?

Are you seriously comparing Gollies to Noddy? Noddy looks like a boy with a funny hat, Gollies are racist caricatures. Is this contrived blindness?!

You're missing what people are saying though - that to them as a child (me included) had no idea they depicted black people at all, never mind in a racist way.
In the Enid Blyton books I read as a child, the golly was in the nursery with all the other toys, just another toy along with the rag dolls, the teddies, etc.
It never occurred to me that a golly was supposed to be a black person, why would it if nobody ever told me?
It seems others thought the same.
I know NOW that it's racist, but I didn't at the time.

Then, (years ago now) I heard Lenny Henry being interviewed. He must have been quite a new/up and coming comedian at the time. He talked about being called a gollywog as an insult in the playground, and what that meant. He talked about what the Golly dolls mean to him and the other black kids he grew up with. And he asked, very gently, if we as a nation could make the choice to get rid of them once and for all

I've not seen that, will have to see if can find the interview anywhere

Do not give a racist caricature toy to a charity shop!!

Can't believe people are still trying to justify this toy on this thread.

@Terralee

Do not give a racist caricature toy to a charity shop!!

Can't believe people are still trying to justify this toy on this thread.

They’re not. They’re going into a bit of depth rather than shouting “Burn it!”

@Genevieva is suggesting a charity shop

If it’s old one and a family toy I might take it and put it away, it’ll be interesting when your child is older.
My MIL was obsessed with buying DD one when she was little, luckily she never found one, thank god.

@Sewsosew why didn’t you tell MIL not to buy one?! So much complicity.

Nah I wouldn’t have that racist crap in my house. Tell her you don’t want it.

@Cadent she very very rarely went shopping without us so she wouldn’t have had an opportunity. She never even saw the internet luckily. Also she didn’t listen to me, she bought DD some heavy winter clothing when she was born (in the middle of a heatwave) as she liked it, after I specifically said no (went in charity bag and she was annoyed).

I have loads & loads of Robertson Jam sets
My dad used to deliver to them in Manchester I think when I was a kid and I would go into the office and help myself 😂
I’m also mixed race and I have kept all my Robertson Jam Sets and dolls

I would put it on a box in a cupboard somewhere until your aunt is no longer with it then gift it to a museum.

Exactly what I thought.

She's kept it from childhood until she's very old. It obviously has great sentimental value for her. If you love her you should respect that.

Just had a look online to see how widely available they still are. Mostly books now, many of them really expensive 'collectors items' (!) And newly produced tee-shirts (ffs) with a big picture of a golly on. Who the fuck would buy something like that apart from a raging racist! And I bet all the while they'd be absolutely insisting they're not racist.

Right like all the people with Gollies at home sit around looking at them and contemplating the mistakes of mankind

Sorry, I know it's a serious thread but this made me howl with laughter.

@KenDodd the only place I’ve seen them is a shop in York, I think someone else mentioned it.

wow, out of interest to see how widely available they still are, I just googled it. Top 2 results. Look at the language, it is shockingly insensitive.

Golliwog for sale | eBay
www.ebay.co.uk › ... › Golliwog
Hearken back to simpler memories with a Golliwog book. Reasonably priced Golliwogs for sale are hard books to find. If you yearn to own a Golly story, have a ...

Traditional Gollies Golly Dolls Gollywog Collectible Golliwog ...
www.signsealedelivered.co.uk › Collectors Corner
Get your gollywog before they disappear forever. Make sure you buy your gollies here in the UK before they sell out and dissappear forever. They are selling fast ...

Traditional Gollies Golly Dolls Gollywog Collectible Golliwog …

Get your gollywog before they disappear forever. Make sure you buy your gollies here in the UK before they sell out and dissappear forever. They are selling fast …

Thanks for sharing that

I checked the link and they are out of stock, either removed due to an avalanche of complaints or genuinely out of stock due to overwhelming demand by racists

The text in that retailer’s website is fascinating and I think can be helpful in understanding why so many people defend these racist items.

On one of their pages I found the following text

These Gollies are rare and very hard to get hold of these days as they are not in your high street shops. Help bring them back into circulation and stop all the 'Non-PC' nonsense. Buy your Gollies here.
Get yours before they disappear forever or Police actually find a reason to charge them!!!! (not like they ever could)

The narrative is very familiar to me and resonates with ancient persuasive discourses that have been used to control the masses by cults and governments since time immemorial.

Reflecting on the text it communicates several easily identifiable claims that go something like this:

1. Precious things (in this instance golliwogs) are central to your identity and culture

1. These things are symbolic of the “good old days” when all was innocent and wonderful in the land

1. Sinister forces are trying to depict these precious, harmless things as bad and harmful

1. Sinister forces are trying prevent you from enjoying these things and thus aim to deny you your birthright

1. Anyone who disapproves of these things is either evil, an idiot or in league with the puppet masters

1. Depriving you of the precious things is the tip of an iceberg of brainwashing and social control

1. By buying / owning / displaying these things you are standing up to your evil oppressors

1. These precious things thus symbolise thus freedom and personal choice

1. You must be right about this because you feel it instinctually and not just your mind but in your body, which yearns for the days of yore when all was free and innocent

10. You are not alone. Many others stick two fingers up at those who would oppress them by their refusal to relinquish the precious things

11. Anyone claiming to be hurt by the precious things is in denial about how lucky they are to live here and should be grateful to the protectors of the precious things for accommodating them in their land of wondrousness

Or something
Just thinking aloud.

These kinds of discourses are as old as the hills

They are the narratives of grievance that have been the foundations for atrocities over the centuries and I think it is important to deconstruct them

hoodathunkit

brilliant post.
Very sobering.

Thanks steppemum :)

I looked at the text again and was struck by this bit

These Gollies are rare and very hard to get hold of these days as they are not in your high street shops. Help bring them back into circulation and stop all the 'Non-PC' nonsense. Buy your Gollies here.

This also is a narrative I am familiar with from cults and scammers who claim to conserve "rare" endangered species but who are simply making money by breeding genetically mutated animals such as white buffalo and white lions. These breeding programmes have nothing to do with conservation and can be very cruel.

Depicting the gollies are "rare", endangered and in peril from evil forces is a kind of victim playing that i am also very familiar with.

The above text makes it sound like you are engaging in the conservation of an endangered species by helping to put the gollies "back into circulation".

On further reflection, it seems to me that getting the gollies back into circulation is like a nasty racist virus spreading. At least you can tell who is infected by spotting the badge on their lapel.

@Cadent

It was such a different world. We had no idea that Gollies represented black people. In Enid Blyton books, alongside Noddy and Big Ears, why would we?

Are you seriously comparing Gollies to Noddy? Noddy looks like a boy with a funny hat, Gollies are racist caricatures. Is this contrived blindness?!

You are assuming a context that is simply nonexistent to children. You have to have all kinds of background knowledge to even understand what a caricature is or understand the social currents underneath it.

@hoodathunkit

Traditional Gollies Golly Dolls Gollywog Collectible Golliwog …

Get your gollywog before they disappear forever. Make sure you buy your gollies here in the UK before they sell out and dissappear forever. They are selling fast …

Thanks for sharing that

I checked the link and they are out of stock, either removed due to an avalanche of complaints or genuinely out of stock due to overwhelming demand by racists

The text in that retailer’s website is fascinating and I think can be helpful in understanding why so many people defend these racist items.

On one of their pages I found the following text

These Gollies are rare and very hard to get hold of these days as they are not in your high street shops. Help bring them back into circulation and stop all the 'Non-PC' nonsense. Buy your Gollies here.
Get yours before they disappear forever or Police actually find a reason to charge them!!!! (not like they ever could)

The narrative is very familiar to me and resonates with ancient persuasive discourses that have been used to control the masses by cults and governments since time immemorial.

Reflecting on the text it communicates several easily identifiable claims that go something like this:

1. Precious things (in this instance golliwogs) are central to your identity and culture

1. These things are symbolic of the “good old days” when all was innocent and wonderful in the land

1. Sinister forces are trying to depict these precious, harmless things as bad and harmful

1. Sinister forces are trying prevent you from enjoying these things and thus aim to deny you your birthright

1. Anyone who disapproves of these things is either evil, an idiot or in league with the puppet masters

1. Depriving you of the precious things is the tip of an iceberg of brainwashing and social control

1. By buying / owning / displaying these things you are standing up to your evil oppressors

1. These precious things thus symbolise thus freedom and personal choice

1. You must be right about this because you feel it instinctually and not just your mind but in your body, which yearns for the days of yore when all was free and innocent

10. You are not alone. Many others stick two fingers up at those who would oppress them by their refusal to relinquish the precious things

11. Anyone claiming to be hurt by the precious things is in denial about how lucky they are to live here and should be grateful to the protectors of the precious things for accommodating them in their land of wondrousness

Or something
Just thinking aloud.

These kinds of discourses are as old as the hills

They are the narratives of grievance that have been the foundations for atrocities over the centuries and I think it is important to deconstruct them

Keep it. It may be very valuable in the future.
I have one very scary looking toy animal. Horror film material. Turns out he's nearly 100 years old and worth hundreds.

I'd like to think they will have no value at all especially in the future when hopefully the stigma attached to owning one will be a deterrent if not being a racist alone isn't reason enough.

I'd like to think they will have no value at all especially in the future when hopefully the stigma attached to owning one will be a deterrent if not being a racist alone isn't reason enough.

We may see swastikas as offensive, but antiques are valuable.

Would a museum be interested in it?

Racists clinging on to offensive dolls that they're too cowardly to display in their homes is laughable. Not even the courage of your own racist convictions. Convoluted bullshit stories as to why it's so necessary to keep the dolls you're scared to display.

Dense doesn't even cover it.

OP if you type 'Mumsnet Golliwog' into search engine you'll see the subject has been done to death in here. For your dilemma, if it's real that is - Your DD will know you're hiding the doll and why so it's not a good look either way is it? Just tell her whatever you choose, after all the end result is the same so why care?