To bin the old-fashioned racist doll? *title tweaked by MNHQ*

[MrsBonnie]

Please excuse the offensive term.

My daughter was gifted a very old doll from my husband’s great aunt. Said aunt is in her 80s now and said that the doll held special memories and she wanted DD to have it.

I don’t want to have the doll in the house, but don’t want to offend the aunt by saying we don’t want it. She does come round from time to time, so there’s a risk she’d enquire after it if she was round. WWYD?

Hide it out of sight and destroy it shortly after said great aunt dies.

[quote Cadent]@KenDodd it reminds me of the dad in American Beauty and his cupboards full of Nazi memorabilia. It probably gives people an illicit thrill.[/quote]
There are people who collect all kinds of weird old things that are no longer considered appropriate for normal use. It tends to be when they are fairly recently considered ok that they are really controversial, after that they are seen as historical and no one cares.

I loved mine as a child. I had no idea they were considered offensive.
Besides it Wasn’t that long ago you could collect badges from jam jars with him on
Mine is in the loft along with the badges -m

They're not offensive now. They were always offensive. It's just that lots of people didn't realise

As it happens, today I’ve started reading a book by David Olusoga. In the preface he talks about an incident at his school just before Christmas in the 70s when all the children were told they could bring in their favourite toys. He recalls how one classmate - innocently - brought in her racist doll and plunged him into a “day of humiliation and pain that I still find hard to recall decades later.” If you’re still in any doubt, the name of that racist doll was scrawled on a note, wrapped round a brick and then thrown through the family living room window.

@LilacPebbles

I'm surprised at the naïveté of some. I was raised knowing the dolls were racist and wrong, so that means my parents knew it as well as they're the ones who taught me (from Yorkshire, like OP's aunt) and they're of a certain age now.

Well, that depends on your parents telling you, surely. Mine didn't. I had to find out for myself as I became an adult myself and realised.

There are people who collect all kinds of weird old things that are no longer considered appropriate for normal use. It tends to be when they are fairly recently considered ok that they are really controversial, after that they are seen as historical and no one cares.

But as many people have said, Gollies were never ok.

For those who grew up thinking these dolls were normal, consider how normalised and all pervasive racism must have been that neither you nor your well-meaning families noticed it.

As for the suggestion of donationing to a museum, I wouldn't bother. These items are not rare unfortunately or hard to get hold of, I don't think a museum would be interested.

I used to collect the pins that came with the marmalade jars. Obviously know better now, I’d put it in the bin attic.

I remember my step grandfather collecting the badges that came with marmalade (was it?) in the early 80s. I didn't know they were supposed to represent human people back then. I was very young.

They badges disappeared. I learned.

We can't erase our history. We must learn from it so that we aren't doomed to make the same mistakes again.

The doll is not a toy. It does not need to be displayed or played with. It can be kept, safely, hidden and perhaps referred to if the subject ever comes up.

There are probably enough in museums but it's almost needed so that you can say "in living memory, via my aunt this was considered acceptable - it never was and we must learn from it"

My DDad is 85. He would never have had one of these dolls in the house when I was growing up, because he is a thinking man who would look at the item and realise without anyone else having to tell him, that it was offensive. How could it not be? Just look at it! He knew then and he knows now. Age is not always relevant, taking time to look and think might be. And if Robertson jam fought for so long to keep their ‘icon’ maybe they should take a long hard look at themselves and their priorities.( I would imagine the 2018 stats on who wanted to keep the picture were skewed by Brexit and ‘PC gone mad’)

@GirlCalledJames

For those who grew up thinking these dolls were normal, consider how normalised and all pervasive racism must have been that neither you nor your well-meaning families noticed it.

I agree and I'm glad it's not normalised anymore and is called out in a way it never used to be. It's clear it's still pervasive though and I think society sadly has still got a long way to go

@SqidgeBum

I would shove it in the attic in a box. Like a PP said, its similar to a mink coat or something ivory. We never want to make them again or use them every day, but that doesn't mean we should destroy them like they never existed. For example, I know someone who has a signed copy of Mein Kampf which her grandfather had stored away. She found it after he died. She doesnt like Hitler, but she kept the book. It's a part of history. Maybe it's the historian in me, but I think things, even bad things, should be kept for future reference rather than destroyed.

100% this.

Destroy history and what will we learn from?

As the quote goes “Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it”.

@LizzieMacQueen

I've reported my post. Refers to a slur term. Perhaps the thread should be deleted in it's entirety.

I don't think the whole thread should be deleted (any racist posts definitely should though) Threads like these make people who were genuinely naive to the origins aware. Several years ago I was on a thread on MN about gollies saying "but they're just a toy" - I went away and read what they really were and why they were so offensive. So for people who genuinely want to learn I think threads like these are useful as makes them think. (Not actual racists though, they can get in the bin)

@Cadent

There are people who collect all kinds of weird old things that are no longer considered appropriate for normal use. It tends to be when they are fairly recently considered ok that they are really controversial, after that they are seen as historical and no one cares.

But as many people have said, Gollies were never ok.

I think that's a nonsensical comment.

You could equally say Nazi items were never ok, chastity belts were never ok, opium pipes were never ok, torture devices were never ok, etc.

Obviously at certain times, lots of people thought they were ok. And then they became not ok.

@MrsBonnie

I like the idea of keeping it hidden in the loft. But also don’t want to be racist just by having it in the house... how sad that it’s even a thing.

Keeping a doll on your attic will not make you a racist OP

I was born in the 1960s and around the time I started school I learned that you never played with toys like those or used offensive terms. My mother knew then that I’d learn bad words at school and made sure I never used them, even if other people did. Any adult who is in their 80s now & living in the UK knows that these toys are offensive and not appropriate.

As a black child Of the 70s and 80s the term ‘was always med at me in a daily basis . These dolls have always been offensive. Ignorance is no excuse.

Walk a mile in another’s shoes and consider how they may have felt.

No need to send them to a museum there are plenty around. Strangely enough I walked into a shop in Stratford upon Avon with a large display a them.... just after leaving a restaurant after experiencing their racism ( oh we aren’t serving any food today.... to the only 2 black customers ....then proceeding to offer menus to white customers who asked .... confirmed no tables pre booked ).

Hate them with a vengeance and would not give the time of day to anyone trying to justify retaining them .

Pain holds no pleasant nostalgia...

Meant the term ‘W**’ was used on a daily’s basis as an insult toward me

Oh and this occurred in the last 18 months re the shop and restaurant

@Goosefoot

You could equally say Nazi items were never ok, chastity belts were never ok, opium pipes were never ok, torture devices were never ok, etc.

Nazi items were ok with Nazis. Gollies may have been ok with white Brits but not black Brits. So they were not ok.

[quote stackemhigh]@Goosefoot

You could equally say Nazi items were never ok, chastity belts were never ok, opium pipes were never ok, torture devices were never ok, etc.

Nazi items were ok with Nazis. Gollies may have been ok with white Brits but not black Brits. So they were not ok.[/quote]
Possibly, though I wouldn't take that kind of statement for granted.

But it misses the point pretty spectacularly, which was certain historical items will go through a period of being seen as tainted, soon after they come to be widely rejected. Eventually however, they are just seen as historical items, and no one would think about getting rid of them for fear of being, or being seen, as tainted.

Why? It was a British colony confused

'The Caribbean' is/was not a British colony! JFC.

You do know that there are 13 independent countries and 21 Territories/Commonwealths etc in the Caribbean, right? We're not all one country!

@isadoradancing123
Bloody hell, its a doll, dont overthink it

I'd have said the same a few years ago (and probably did say similar on a thread about the same subject on here years ago
Seriously, if you haven't already, read about why they're offensive and the Jim crow era.
I did and think more people should do too (there's a couple of links already made on thread by some posters)

I called someone a G-W when I was little, not understanding what I was saying. I just heard a family member use it, thought it was a funny word, and thought it would be a funny insult. Obviously I had to say it to a minority person (friend of my cousin, not black but Asian) and my cousin was crazy mad at me for saying it. She demanded to know where I had heard that word, realised I wasn’t saying it as a racial slur and then lectured me on why it was a bad thing to say.

Twenty odd years later and I’m still mortified that I ever said it. I personally wouldn’t accept it and just tell family member you are not comfortable with having it in your house considering what it represents. Then explain to DD that they wanted to give you the dolly but you thought it was inappropriate due to its negative associations.