To bin the old-fashioned racist doll? *title tweaked by MNHQ*

[MrsBonnie]

Please excuse the offensive term.

My daughter was gifted a very old doll from my husband’s great aunt. Said aunt is in her 80s now and said that the doll held special memories and she wanted DD to have it.

I don’t want to have the doll in the house, but don’t want to offend the aunt by saying we don’t want it. She does come round from time to time, so there’s a risk she’d enquire after it if she was round. WWYD?

David Pilgrim's account of why he started the museum left me in tears

www.ferris.edu/HTMLS/news/jimcrow/collect.htm

My DH had a badge of one. I binned it when he was out.
I think there will be enough records of them/museum pieces we don't need to keep all of them. Bin it.

Agree with the donate to a museum. If we erase them and pretend these things just never existed it's a lot more comfortable to us, but the next generation won't know what we know. These things need to be kept, in context, for people to learn, they happened and this was why and this is how we got to the point of seeing them as we now do: as unacceptable.

May need to keep it quietly in an attic first for a few years if it's a special and historic doll to a loved relative who sees this as a bequest. Rather than chase around museums specifically looking for one that agrees to take it, I'd be inclined to make a gift of it to my local museum and walk away. What they choose to do with it is then up to them.

I never had one as a child but I was aware of them because of the jam. I didn’t know then that they were racist as they were just something you could get if you collected jam tokens. I didn’t know they depicted black people. It wasn’t something that would have occurred to me.

Nowadays there is no excuse to not know and to say you don’t understand why they are racist. Even if you have never been specifically told they are I don’t see how you can not realise.

I loved Enid Blyton as a child and read all of her books. I wouldn’t give them to a child now, knowing how prejudiced they were.

Yes, back in the day things were different but as a society we change and evolve and what was acceptable then isn’t acceptable now. If you think it is then you are being selective with how things have changed. It used to be acceptable for 12 year olds to get married in the UK. Times change and we become more knowledgable and progressive.

Golly dolls aren't an important part of our history or a lesson that we need to keep them to teach our children. They are shameful evidence of wilful ignorance.
Yes, I agree. There are enough written and photographed evidence of the dolls, they don't need to be kept. And it's part of a much wider picture of the embedded racism of the past (and present).

I really don't get the 'it's sentimental' view either tbh. Ok, it was a doll she had, but I wouldn't keep any other offensive memorabilia that was handed to me by family. And if we kept everything that held a bit of memory to our deceased loved ones our houses would be overrun with generations of birthday cards, notes, toys, clothes, furniture etc.

I think it's probably something I'd keep in the loft until she passed away and bin. Use it as a learning experience when child is old enough possibly, but you can teach your child this without holding on to physical items.

Explain to the aunt that they aren't appropriate anymore so unfortunately won't be passing it on.

@hoodathunkit

Yes, I just finished reading the article.

I in no way want to deny what happened, never, I just don't know if a whole bunch of white people preserving these dolls in their lofts are the way to do it IYSWIM.

In true revolutions of the past there would have been mass burning of such objects. Not that any of us want to return to that, but I am shocked by the number of people on this thread that claim to be unaware.

@Cadent

Will there be a time when someone posts a thread and no one pops up with faux naivete about these racist dolls? I don't care how lovely your nanna is, that doesn't make it acceptable to say the dolls are ok.

The thing is though, to a lot of people, they WERE just dolls in childhood, and you just didn't know the context. I mean, I loved Enid Blyton books, and to me as a child the golliwog was just another character along with the dolls in the nursery in the book. It's only when you get to adulthood and realise when you think about it (yes, aware my privilege is showing there) that yes, actually, they are offensive and racist. I mean, the golliwog was usually portrayed as the naughty one looking back now I think about it! It was a different time, they've always been offensive but it's only now we know "better", for want of a better word. In regards to the OP, I wouldn't bin it, it's not my place to, if it's a heirloom, however offensive it is. I'd stick it up in the loft or give to a museum if they took them. Or just say I didn't want it in the first place

I'd bin it. And how come your aunt doesn't know it's racist and offensive? She would be ages with my DM (now deceased) who knew these dolls were offensive in the 80s?(ordinary, working class woman). I couldn't have that thing in my house.

I have never met a racist, even the most extreme awful racist, who thinks their own views are racist. They always just think they are right and there's nothing racist about them

Sadly very true

@LizzieMacQueen 'red indian' 🤦‍♀️🤯

' They are only offensive now, they never used to be... ' just because you weren't aware they were offensive does not mean they weren't offending lots of people!

I in no way want to deny what happened, never, I just don't know if a whole bunch of white people preserving these dolls in their lofts are the way to do it IYSWIM.

ISWYM :)

In true revolutions of the past there would have been mass burning of such objects. Not that any of us want to return to that, but I am shocked by the number of people on this thread that claim to be unaware.

I have had many heated exchanges with people abpout gollywog dolls and Robinson's badges.

The lack of awareness, or I think more accurately the lack of concern about the pain of others, is enfuriating.

I totally understand that some people owned gollywog dolls and loved them as children and may genuinely claim that they didn't know how hurtful or offensive they were / are.

I appreciate that children's dolls may function as transitional objects and that people feel protective / defensive about them for this reason.

For me the most important thing is not so much the dolls themselves as how people react to the experiences, usually very painful and negative experiences of others in relation to the dolls.

Personally I get enraged by people who say "well I'm sorry if people feel that way but my doll isn't racist", the worst kind of gaslighting / denial.

The museum of racist memorabilia has a page about golliwog dolls that it very helpful in reducating people about the history of the dolls

here it is:
www.ferris.edu/HTMLS/news/jimcrow/golliwog/homepage.htm

People cannot read this and honestly claim not to know or understand what the problem is. They can honestly say that they don't care about other people's pain. Some people do say this. But they at least will know about the history of the dolls.

I think it is possible for a person to have loving, nostalgic feelings towards a doll, especially a doll that served as a transitional object during childhood, but also to become educated about the racist history of the doll.

All I want is for people to think and reflect about this issue. Talk about it. Having ambivalent, conflicted feelings is fine, good even. Not thinking is a serious problem.

I hope that makes sense :)

@Quaagars

"I mean, I loved Enid Blyton books, and to me as a child the golliwog was just another character along with the dolls in the nursery in the book.
It's only when you get to adulthood and realise when you think about it (yes, aware my privilege is showing there) that yes, actually, they are offensive and racist.
I mean, the golliwog was usually portrayed as the naughty one looking back now I think about it!"

------

I'm just looking at the cover of The Three Golliwogs and the white man on the cover looks like a white man. The Golliwogs bear no resemblance to black people, they are racist caricatures. How can you say they just another character?

While there’s no dispute that these toys are unacceptable now, I’m not buying all these women apparently regarding them as racist in the 60s, 70s and 80s. They appeared on every jar of Roberson’s jam until 2001 a recent poll had the following results:

In July 2018, a YouGov poll was set up that asked 1,660 Britons whether it was "racist to sell or display a golliwog doll", to which a 63% responded "No", 20% "Yes", and 17% "I'm Not Sure".[21]

Depressing.

[quote Cadent]@Quaagars

"I mean, I loved Enid Blyton books, and to me as a child the golliwog was just another character along with the dolls in the nursery in the book.
It's only when you get to adulthood and realise when you think about it (yes, aware my privilege is showing there) that yes, actually, they are offensive and racist.
I mean, the golliwog was usually portrayed as the naughty one looking back now I think about it!"

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I'm just looking at the cover of The Three Golliwogs and the white man on the cover looks like a white man. The Golliwogs bear no resemblance to black people, they are racist caricatures. How can you say they just another character?[/quote]
Exactly, that's my point - as a child I didn't associate them with black people.
I don't know what I thought they were to be honest! Just another toy in the nursery like I said, like you get teddies etc. In my childhood innocence.
I know now I'm older they're racist, and belong in the past (not that they ever belonged there either but I hope you know what I mean)

I have one that was mine as a child, though it lives in a closet. I have very fond memories of playing with him, I thought of him as a sort of rapier-wielding flashy hero - I called him Johann, and my sister's Pooh bear was his fat sidekick.

Anyway, even if I didn't have personal memories related to it, it's an antique at this point and I think a significant bit of domestic history.

[quote Cadent]@Quaagars

"I mean, I loved Enid Blyton books, and to me as a child the golliwog was just another character along with the dolls in the nursery in the book.
It's only when you get to adulthood and realise when you think about it (yes, aware my privilege is showing there) that yes, actually, they are offensive and racist.
I mean, the golliwog was usually portrayed as the naughty one looking back now I think about it!"

------

I'm just looking at the cover of The Three Golliwogs and the white man on the cover looks like a white man. The Golliwogs bear no resemblance to black people, they are racist caricatures. How can you say they just another character?[/quote]
As a child, I could see that they were meant to be black, though no one ever told me that, and I thought it was unfair they were often portrayed as naughty.

But as far as not looking real, that seemed no different than any number of toys from those kinds of stories. 99% of them were weird looking.

I'm surprised at the naïveté of some. I was raised knowing the dolls were racist and wrong, so that means my parents knew it as well as they're the ones who taught me (from Yorkshire, like OP's aunt) and they're of a certain age now.

Gollies were invented as intentional caricatures of black people. As such they are racist.

My cousin's mixed race children were given dolls to play with that resembled actual black babies. Not unpleasant caricatures of themselves.
They would be seriously upset & offended by gollies..

And ffs do not use the term 'golliwogs' please people as 'wog' is a horrible term that I have heard used in a racist way.

Look; when I visited Krakow in Poland I went into a gift shop & was totally shocked to see figurines for sale that were literally nasty caricatures of Jews holding coins.
I assume that these figurines have been made for years...

No nice normal person would buy the caricature figurines of Jews so why buy or keep the caricatures dolls of black people.

The only place items like this belong is in a museum to show what ethnic minorities have had to go through in history.

When my (very racist) mum gave my children a gollywog about 10 years ago (insisting they're not racist), she said she bought it (brand new) from a market stall in Cornwall. She told me the owner of the stall had said that he couldn't get enough of them and that they sell like hot cakes. Depressing.

@KenDodd it reminds me of the dad in American Beauty and his cupboards full of Nazi memorabilia. It probably gives people an illicit thrill.

museum? I know they're offensive but she probably loved it like we love any doll and probably didn't think anything of it at the time. Don't bin it. Put it away for now.

Is there an Africa or Slavery museum that might want to have it? I was in the Africa Museum in the Netherlands and they had a display of things and advertisements that used to be normal but are seen as really offensive now. It was quite educational to see those things all next to each other knowing how far we now are from that viewpoint while realising that we still aren't there yet.

Bloody hell, its a doll, dont overthink it, shove it in the back of a cupboard out of sight, but its there if she ever asks