...to think that when a man really loves a woman, he wants to marry her?

[MacbookHo]

Am I?

Yes if he wants her assets to be legally protected when he dies

When DH and I met, we were 16. We said "I love you" after knowing each other about a month - and truly meant it. I've loved him every single day since then - I didn't marry him until I was 21 and even then we were told that we were far too young. Of course you can love someone and not be ready to marry them. To the almost 50% of people who think that OP is NBU, would you seriously get engaged at the same stage of your relationship as saying I love you? Really?!

@Bluesheep8

I think a lot of people just don't want a wedding to be honest!

This is me! DP and I have been together for 24 years. He would get married if I wanted to but I don't want a wedding.
Although I'm considering doing it just the two of us and telling people afterwards but it just never seems to be that important....

I thought this thread was about marriage and not about weddings? They are two completely different things - marriage is a legal contact and a wedding is a religious or secular celebration / party.

@Lovemusic33

Marriage is just a piece of paper. I have been married and I don't think I would get married again but I hope I will be in love again.

Such a cliche thing to say. It's so much more than a piece of paper. It's security too! If my dh were to die, everything would go to me. If we wasn't.. id get nothing! We have children together so security is important.

Obviously we didn't just marry for security but because we love one another, are committed and intend to stay together for better or for worse.

I think a man will marry the woman he loves
a) if he loves her
b) if he thinks he’ll lose her otherwise.

As per PP, if the woman wants to get married then yes I believe it’s generally saying something if her partner knows this and yet does not propose. If genuinely neither of them want this then if course no need or expectation for it!

@Mammylamb

From a practical point of view, I think it makes sense to be married For the legal protections, especially If you have kids.

Saying that, if we ever divorced or DH passed away, I would not marry again. I would possibly have future relationships, but not marry, as I want to protect my sons inheritance.

I knew that I wanted marriage, and told DH this early on. He thought it was just a bit of paper, but, as it was so important to me, he asked me to marry him.

I see so many women have children with men who dangle marriage like a carrot, and honestly, I find it really sickening

Agreed. One of my neighbours has two children with her partner, doesn't work as she is a SAHM but the house is completely in his name. Maybe they don't believe in marriage but I think she is pretty naive to not protect herself.

I would also never marry again. I've seen too many sad situations recently where 50/60 something parents have remarried after divorced then died and left everything to their new partners. When that partner dies all their money (in the cases I know a considerable amount) will end up with the kids of the new partner. I appreciate people can do what they want with their money but in both cases I've been astounded that the wills have been changed so everything goes to the new spouse. I never would have expected it of those people and their kids really could have done with the money.

I thought this thread was about marriage and not about weddings? They are two completely different things - marriage is a legal contact and a wedding is a religious or secular celebration / party.

Yes I realise that. But you can't have a marriage without a wedding first.

Everyone was surprised when DH & I got married as up until the point we met DH had been firmly in the “I’m never ever getting married” camp

Equally my oldest friend has been with her DP for 25 years, they have 3 children & a mortgage & have never wanted to get married

I think the key thing is whether ppl don’t want to get married but do put in place as many legal protections for their partner as possible. So my friend & her DP have drawn up as many legal documents as they can around being each other’s NOK, having POA, pension rights, wills etc

You only have to go onto the relationships board to see women who have been left high & dry by men who never put any protections/safeguards in place, retained all the assets “the house is in his name” while they gave up work or put downgraded their career to bring up their children

If you love someone & want to spend your life with them, you want to protect them in the event of a crisis or death. I’m very wary of men who will neither marry or put any legal protection in place for the woman they supposedly love

Such a cliche thing to say.
It's so much more than a piece of paper. It's security too! If my dh were to die, everything would go to me. If we wasn't.. id get nothing! We have children together so security is important.

It isn't just cliched, it's idiotic. There is a degree of sense in at least some cliches. Not this one.

Marriage is a legal contract that can have a significant impact on the position of the parties involved. It involves giving up rights as well as gaining them. It's only a piece of paper insofar as any legal contract or important document is. Funny how we never seem to get people saying their passports, birth certificates, wills etc are just pieces of paper though!

@Bluesheep8

I thought this thread was about marriage and not about weddings? They are two completely different things - marriage is a legal contact and a wedding is a religious or secular celebration / party.

Yes I realise that. But you can't have a marriage without a wedding first.

Of course you can ! Many many people get married without any of the time, expense and Drama that most women in our culture mean by “ a wedding “.

You can get married by a registrar or religious celebrant with just two witnesses and for a very small fee. All the commercial trappings of extortionate outfits and extravagant parties are entirely optional.

I get frustrated when I read post here saying “we can’t get married” because ....

We can’t afford it
I don’t want to be pregnant on my wedding day
We are of different religions
We are not religious
I want to lose weight
We have a huge family
Our families don’t like each other
He’s old fashioned and wants to propose
He doesn’t want a big wedding

So they move in together, have kids and she takes maternity leave then becomes a SAHP or goes PT. Which is a CRAZY thing to do if you have no legal contact. It’s risky enough even if you do.

The wedding industry has managed to convince us that al that matters is spending loads of cash on a huge party to impress your friends and post of social media. Which is great if that’s what you want.

But it’s very stupid for any woman to place that ahead of financial security for her and her kids.

This board is full of threads from women who

1. Want to get married to the father of their kids but he won’t .

1. Didn’t get married and now are in poverty when he buggered off and left them to raise the kids alone.

So yes of course , live together without ties if you have no kids and share work and housework equally. But don’t EVER go part time, take family leave or jeopardise your career by doing more housework / wifework.

In my experience, yes. Definitely, yes. Men aren't afraid of commitment, they are just afraid of commitment to the wrong person.

Know so many blokes, in long term relationships, so adamant they didn't believe in marriage, etc. They have all since split with their long term partners, and are now married or engaged.

@peaceanddove

In my experience, yes. Definitely, yes. Men aren't afraid of commitment, they are just afraid of commitment to the wrong person.

Know so many blokes, in long term relationships, so adamant they didn't believe in marriage, etc. They have all since split with their long term partners, and are now married or engaged.

That certainly happens. We have had plenty of examples on here. I don't think it can be universalised though.

@peaceanddove

In my experience, yes. Definitely, yes. Men aren't afraid of commitment, they are just afraid of commitment to the wrong person.

Know so many blokes, in long term relationships, so adamant they didn't believe in marriage, etc. They have all since split with their long term partners, and are now married or engaged.

My reading of that is simply that if a long term, stable relationship actually ends because you don't want to marry, after a period of being single you're probably more open to marriage if the alternative is being alone in old age.

Definitely, look at people like George colony and Johnny Depp.

I've known so many friends cool because they love each... Don't need marriage hey ho, break up and married to next one.

I don't not want to marry my DP because I think one day I'll marry someone else.

I don't want to get married because I've seen how little it can mean. People who say 'well it means something to me' - well the commitment we've made to each other (buying a house, having a child) means something to us. And has less to do with 'love' in the frilly hearts and flowers, big display sense and more to do with wanting to be on each other's team, wanting to be family.

Some people marry because they mean it; others do it for something to do. Same with cohabiting, having a child etc. Fundamentally, the only true test of the strength of that commitment happens inside the individual's own head. The mere fact of being married, in a nation that allows divorce, tells you nothing about the sincerity of the commitment and even less about the amount of 'love' involved.

It may offer some financial protection to one party or another, and confer some automatic parental rights on the father; but there are legal ways to deal with most of this, and I'd say these are preferable as they don't come beburdened with centuries of patriarchal misogynist bullshit. Besides which, if I separate from my partner, neither one of us would want to be financially dependent on the other and have arranged our lives both jointly and privately to ensure that wouldn't happen. Because we are grown up adults and appreciate that anything can happen.

All the smug people saying 'well I know people who were in LTRs and said they didn't believe in marriage and now they've broken up and gone on to marry' - if you're trying to tell me you don't also know lots of people who were married, swore it was forever and are now divorced then pull the other one, it is having bells on. Either that or you are living in a bubble that defies statistics. People change their minds. Which is pretty much the exact point I'm making.

As it has been illustrated over and over again, marriage is NOT just a piece of paper (using marriage to also apply to civil partnership etc) it entitled both parties to certain protection under the law, most crucially rights to pension and inheritance (plus inheritance tax relief) and some rights of you split up.

Therefore, if a man loves a woman and wants to ensure she is entitled to these protections should something happen to him, then yes, he should marry her

Far worse a position if the woman wants to get married and the man says it’s just a piece of paper.

So many threads on the relationship board about how they were really in love, they were married xx years, she gave up her career to look after him and the kids and he's left her - saying he never or no longer loves her. Her 'financial security' is a mirgae because he's hidden money, she can't afford the mortgage on her own and is forced to give up everything - and he refuses to pay for the DCs.

Marriage, in my view, is a crock of shit.

A man truly loves a woman when;

• he does not always put himself first
• he does not expect her to give up financial independence for him
• he respects her life and career decisions
• he does his real honest fair share of the domestic labour
• he recognises and foregoes other forms of male privilege
• if she does become a SAHM then he makes financial provision for her in terms of a potential split and post-retirement income
• in the event of a split he still treats her well and justly.

and so on.

I don't believe in marriage, not because "it's just a piece of paper" etc. but because I think it adds nothing to a relationship.
It doesn't protect you in case of divorce - go over to the relationship board of you don't know what I mean.
It's also no longer "forever" because we all know how easy it is to get a divorce, and that no one nowadays would advise someone to stay with an abusive partner, a partner with destructive addictions, even a partner who doesn't love you. So all this "in sickness and in health" etc. is actually pretty meaningless. What we mean is "I love you and will stay with you as long as the good times prevail and you love me, treat me well and make me happy". And I think that is a good thing - there is nothing to be said for a loveless, unhappy or downright abusive marriage.

It doesn't protect you in case of divorce - go over to the relationship board of you don't know what I mean.

You must have missed the many recent posts where women who are going through a split unmarried are going to be utterly screwed and have no rights at all.

I think if more people were sensible enough to realise that falling in love with someone does not necessarily mean they will make a good husband/wife, then there would be a lot fewer divorces.

@Bluesheep8

I think a lot of people just don't want a wedding to be honest!

This is me! DP and I have been together for 24 years. He would get married if I wanted to but I don't want a wedding.
Although I'm considering doing it just the two of us and telling people afterwards but it just never seems to be that important....

I was the other partner in this. My longterm DP wanted to get married, I didn’t on feminist grounds. It’s an institution with a lot of patriarchal baggage for me. In the end, he really wanted to so I did, on the proviso that we just did it with two witnesses and no fanfare. I frequently forget, to be honest.

So no, it’s perfectly possible to love someone and commit to them whole heartedly, and not marry them. Although I note that some posters seem to be of the 19thc opinion that marriage is a favour men do to women. Not in my world.

@AnneLovesGilbert

It doesn't protect you in case of divorce - go over to the relationship board of you don't know what I mean.

You must have missed the many recent posts where women who are going through a split unmarried are going to be utterly screwed and have no rights at all.

There's one now where the woman would have been in a much better position married and has had an unpleasant surprise. It isn't the first and will not be the last. If anything, there's one every few weeks. A blanket claim that marriage doesn't protect you in the event of divorce is no more sensible than a blanket claim that it automatically does.

Indeed. But it was awash with ridiculous advice to harass him, tell everyone what a bastard he was, turn the kids against him, restrict his access and go after his pension (impossible if not married) despite the OP mutually agreeing to stay unmarried, quit work and spend her time walking the dog (not a euphemism). People, including women, need to take some ownership of their decisions.