To defer my Summer born daughter’s school start date?

[ThornAmongstRoses]

I have a daughter who should be starting school next September but she will have only turned 4 about a week before the start date.

For the last few months I have seriously been thinking about delaying her starting until the following year when she will have just turned 5.

I have done so much reading up around the subject and it’s quite clear that statistically (because I know there will always be exceptions) starting school after just turning 4 can be very detrimental to their education and achievements through their schooling compared to Autumn, Winter and Spring borns.

My husband is a teacher and is absolutely on board with the deferral.

I mentioned it to my brother a few days ago as his child is summer born (a year behind mine) and he totally laughed me off.

He said it was a pointless thing to do and if the younger kids struggle then it’s down to the parents to do more at home with them.

It was a bit of a black and white attitude I thought.

I told him that if it was as simple as doing some work at home to get the Summer borns to the same level as their peers, then there wouldn’t be so much information out there about the disparities between Summer borns and other children.

I’m not being unreasonable to consider this though am I?

I do understand there will always be exceptions and there will be many stories abouthigh achieving Summer born children, but that doesn’t detract from the fact that overall, Summer Born children do fare worse at school if they start when they have just turned four years old.

My brother has made me doubt myself

We started our August born boy in reception aged 5. Best decision we ever made for him. He would have struggled if he had gone at 4, but by the time he was 5 he was far more ready. He’s in year 1 now and thriving.

I have done so much reading up around the subject and it’s quite clear that statistically (because I know there will always be exceptions) starting school after just turning 4 can be very detrimental to their education and achievements through their schooling compared to Autumn, Winter and Spring borns.

I don’t understand this. I thought the curriculum was designed to be accessed by 4 year olds. Therefore being “just turned 4” should mean (barring developmental issues) that the child can access the curriculum.

If all summer born children defer, surely this will mean spring-born children become the new summer born ones? So they will eventually be making the same claims that they are at a disadvantage, and will also defer. Then it will be the winter-born ones, so the autumn-born children will become the youngest in the class. Eventually everyone will just stay in kindergarten forever 😁

@ThornAmongstRoses are you sure you need to put the deferral request in the school application in January? I had understood that you apply for a place as normal and then defer by approaching the school once you’ve accepted a place there. Please correct me if I’m wrong though.

My current plan is to apply for a place and then not have DS start until, day, after the Christmas hols or maybe even after the Easter hols. If I get to the Easter hols and he still doesn’t seem ready I’d then apply to defer for him to start reception in September with the intake below.

We didn’t defer our end of August DS but he was very ready to start school socially, it’s took time for the academia side but has made good progress. I don’t think an extra year of nursery would have benefited him. He has a young boy who was deferred and is almost 18 months older than the youngest ones and has matured quicker and he acts up about not wanting to be friends with them as he is loads older.

Just hopping back on during a break...

I haven’t got time to read back on everyone’s comments (only get a short break) but just coming on with an update from my husband who has spoken to the school.

They said the school have no problem with delayed entry and they would always recommend that when the child does start a year later than planned, they go into reception as opposed to going into Year 1.

They also said though, that if we do delay her start by a year, that at some point she will have to skip a year before going to secondary school, as they can only go into Year 7 at the age appropriate cohort.

She said most parents choose for the child to do Reception, Yr1, Yr2 and then skip year 3 and go straight into Year 4.

She said it’s important to think about whether the possible difficult few years
she may have at starting just after her 4th birthday, can justify putting her in the position where she would have to miss out an entire year at some point. Doing so would mean she would be taken away from her friends to join a class where she doesn’t know anyone alongside having skipped up a year whether she’s academically able to cope with it or not.

She did say though that it isn’t a decision we have to make now as we can apply for her place as normal and then if come April-May time we have concerns that she isn’t ready for school, we can then start the process delaying her start for another year.

I think parents would be more confident about summer born kids joining when they are just 4 if the schools had policies to assist and were minded to be sympathetic. I asked at every school I visited preapplication and got told that they ‘deal with the child in front of them’. The reception teacher had zero patience with my boy. He ended up the youngest in a class where a staggering 45% were autumn term birthdays, another 45% easter and just 10% ‘summer’ - the other two being May whilst he is end of July. I’d then be told that the rest of the class managed x, y, z and so should he. He was hardly hugely behind or badly behaved either but the developmental difference between him and the september birthdays was clear. I live in an authority where they fudge the issue of out of cohort admissions. I think I would have had to take the LEA to court to achieve it as my child had no special needs and was not premature. I think with more school support and acknowledgement of the issue I would feel happier.

@Anniemabel You don't have to apply at all if you are set on delaying by a full year as you will ultimately be refusing any place offered. The issue is that you might end up without a school place if you change your mind. We did apply (having already got confirmation from relevant schools that DD would be placed in Reception if delayed) because we weren't sure that early on, but then did withdraw application once decided.

There are definitely some dodgy school policies/rules delaying deadlines which strictly they can't enforce. Same about part time/deferred attendance.

@ThornAmongRoses Sounds like the school have the right attitude to starting, but that's wrong about missing a year later (and odd that they would support such a policy)

I’ve got a summer born in reception and I can’t imagine having left her in nursery another year. I think for her, it would have been detrimental. There was one child at her nursery that deferred and it was 100% the right call. He just wouldn’t have coped. There are a couple in her class that I’d say are borderline and perhaps could have benefited from deferral. If you have a confident, bright summer born, I think you could actually do harm by deferring despite the advantages on paper. I know some of my daughter’s September born friends found it very hard when their friends went off to school and they didn’t. You know your child best and how they compare with their older peers.

If all summer born children defer, surely this will mean spring-born children become the new summer born ones? So they will eventually be making the same claims that they are at a disadvantage, and will also defer. Then it will be the winter-born ones, so the autumn-born children will become the youngest in the class.

Unlikely you'll ever get to a stage when ALL children defer. Scotland has a gray area in January into February where some kids defer, some don't.
Decisions are made for individual children based on their individual development. It's as bad to defer a child who doesn't need it as it is to push a child who could really benefit from that extra year preschool. A higher percentage of boys defer than girls but the deferral rates are fairly even across socioeconomic groups.

Its absolutely bonkers to think that twins would be put in different year groups because of a rock solid date and time on a calendar. Incidentally the report I read from a mum of such twins thought her younger twin settled into school much better than her older twin sister did the year before.
There was 20mins between them!

Skip a year? That sounds horrible for the child- especially regarding friendship groups and missed curriculum. Imagine going into year 4 when not only will you then be the youngest, but you've missed all of the year 3 curriculum and the rest of the class will view you as a year younger than them because that is what you were perceived as for the first 3 years of school. No way would I be doing that to my child!

Friendship groups are really important at primary so I’d be really worried about jumping up a class halfway through primary as it will need with those groups. I would only defer if I felt dd had some kind of delay.

My dtds are 30th august (due end of September) and the only real issue we had was tiredness after school the first term. We did minimal homework and didn’t push anything, no after school clubs etc. They are now year 5 and way above average. I’m so glad I didn’t defer now I look back.

@FreekStar

Skip a year? That sounds horrible for the child- especially regarding friendship groups and missed curriculum. Imagine going into year 4 when not only will you then be the youngest, but you've missed all of the year 3 curriculum and the rest of the class will view you as a year younger than them because that is what you were perceived as for the first 3 years of school. No way would I be doing that to my child!

Agreed. I can't see any positives to this at all. 😲 I'm also surrprised this is a common enough occurence, that the school are able to tell the precedent set by the other parents.

... and yes, I agree with your summary of the research. It demonstrates that the impact of being young for year is long lasting on average. This is why areas with the11+ age weight it.

Just read that update about skipping a year.
I'd speak with the local high schools as skipping a year sounds horrendous for the children concerned.
I was so sure that 3/4 years ago England came into line with Scotland allowing deferral into school and for children to stay in that cohort for the whole of their schooling.

@ThornAmongstRoses it's not true you have to go back into cohort for year 7. Go on the flexible schooling for summerborns Facebook page, they'll have the legislation.

Someone has to be the oldest and someone has to be the youngest . She will catch up .
I'm mid july , my brother late july and my niece mid August. I don't even remember it being a thing when I was at school.

I think keeping her back with children a year behind academically is worse , but that's my opinion, and you did post on here for opinions

Someone has to be the oldest and someone has to be the youngest

Yes but the youngest doesnt have to be only just 4.

When DS was your daughter's age we were strongly considering a CSA start because of the same stats you've seen.

A few things changed our minds about our individual situation, such as a) DS is bright and was asking a lot about letters and numbers, b) DS is enormous (he's the tallest in his Reception class despite being summer born), if he was in the year below it might be quite physically intimidating for his classmates and c) he's super confident and friendly and seemed emotionally ready for school.

He is absolutely thriving in Reception, is doing great with phonics and his behaviour has been good. Also 14 out of his class of 26 are also summer born so it very much feels like the right fit for him.

My friend has a little girl who is in Reception at another school and started at CSA and has had issues with the teachers unfairly holding her to higher standards of behaviour and saying things like 'you should be setting a good example as you're the oldest in the class and should be in Y1'.

We can all give our individual experiences but only you know your DD and whether the pros would outweigh the cons for her.

Not RTFT. DD1 is a late July child. When she started primary school, there were 2 entry dates, September & January. She started in January aged 4 years 5 months, quite small and shy. Within a term she was working with the children in the year above. She stayed with her chronological peers but because it was a small school, she was always in a class with older children until year 6 so worked with them. She aced her GCSEs and A levels and is now a 4th year at Cambridge.

DD was more than ready for school. She disliked reception and wanted to read, write and do sums (her words!) so her teacher let her. I knew school was right for her.

@Porcupineinwaiting

Someone has to be the oldest and someone has to be the youngest

Yes but the youngest doesnt have to be only just 4.

Exactly. If all kids started a bit older it probably wouldn't be as much of an issue.

@FreekStar

Skip a year? That sounds horrible for the child- especially regarding friendship groups and missed curriculum. Imagine going into year 4 when not only will you then be the youngest, but you've missed all of the year 3 curriculum and the rest of the class will view you as a year younger than them because that is what you were perceived as for the first 3 years of school. No way would I be doing that to my child!

In this case I absolutely wouldn’t do it unless your dd has very specific learning issues or not meeting her milestones. My dd is in yr8 and the curriculum was updated whilst she was the sort of age you are talking about skipping a year. The school basically had to accelerate learning as the curriculum all of a sudden was a year higher than previously. Effectively therefore all the children missed a year so to speak. Parents reported some children found this very challenging.

Not only will your dd have to deal with missing a year, but also with leaving her old friendship group behind. For some children I imagine that can work just fine as per pps. I cannot think it would have worked for my dd at all. She used to be very very anxious at the start of term. It would have set her back loads academically at a time when she would have needed to advance quickly. She was borderline school refusing the last 5 months of yr1, not a good year. Yr2 she settled but not enough to have the resilience of making new friendships. Statistically speaking, your dd is unlikely to have such a strong reaction as my dd to such disruption but I would think very carefully.

Regardless of whether Reception is play based or not dd found it very different from preschool. Longer school day. Only 2 members of staff covering 30 kids. More cramped and busy. Less gentle. More overwhelming. More older kids.

I think keeping her back with children a year behind academically is worse , but that's my opinion, and you did post on here for opinions

The next oldest to her would be less than a week between them.
I've just read the government guidance last updated Sept this year. It's so much more complicated than in Scotland and so many more ifs and maybe. I'm even stunned that school transport doesn't need to be provided outwith compulsory school ages

Op I'm a huge believer in choice when it comes to kids right on the cusp. I'm shocked at what I have just read. But given the so many ifs and maybes I don't think I'd defer in England. I'd happily add my weight to any lobby for deferral to become a right and a straight forward decision. I'm still horrified by the stories of twins in different years.

I think it doesnt just depend on the particular child but also the particular class/school. A reception teacher I knew had a huge board up on the wall split between 'I am 4' and 'I am 5' with the names of the children in their appropriate group. It was a very visual reminder to adults in the class.

Just seen UnsolvedTheory’s post. At my Dds primary most of the children were born at either the beginning or the end of the scholastic year, a smattering in between. I imagine there will be plenty of summer borns.