To defer my Summer born daughter’s school start date?

[ThornAmongstRoses]

I have a daughter who should be starting school next September but she will have only turned 4 about a week before the start date.

For the last few months I have seriously been thinking about delaying her starting until the following year when she will have just turned 5.

I have done so much reading up around the subject and it’s quite clear that statistically (because I know there will always be exceptions) starting school after just turning 4 can be very detrimental to their education and achievements through their schooling compared to Autumn, Winter and Spring borns.

My husband is a teacher and is absolutely on board with the deferral.

I mentioned it to my brother a few days ago as his child is summer born (a year behind mine) and he totally laughed me off.

He said it was a pointless thing to do and if the younger kids struggle then it’s down to the parents to do more at home with them.

It was a bit of a black and white attitude I thought.

I told him that if it was as simple as doing some work at home to get the Summer borns to the same level as their peers, then there wouldn’t be so much information out there about the disparities between Summer borns and other children.

I’m not being unreasonable to consider this though am I?

I do understand there will always be exceptions and there will be many stories abouthigh achieving Summer born children, but that doesn’t detract from the fact that overall, Summer Born children do fare worse at school if they start when they have just turned four years old.

My brother has made me doubt myself

@Pumperthepumper but then it’s the policy itself that needs to be challenged then, not the application of it maybe?

As far as I see the situation (and I concede that this is just my perspective so in no way definitive), in England we have a system where kids typically start at 4, but there is the option to defer if you feel that is not the right thing for your summer born child. Hence an expectation that the majority will stick to age group.

If we get to a situation where all/majority of summer borns defer as people think nearer 5 than 4 is better to start school then it becomes a different situation with lots of implications that would probably require powers that be to review and any changes could go in a number of ways hypothetically.

Am I right in thinking that in Scotland children start in Primary 1 rather then reception? Is primary 1 more like England’s reception or it’s year one?

You can't compare the UK to other countries. UK reception is a gentle start with mostly play based Our friends in Germany had whose dc was born same week as our dd started at 6 and went from playing all day to a very formal schooling with no transition. He was crying every day.

If we get to a situation where all/majority of summer borns defer as people think nearer 5 than 4 is better to start school then it becomes a different situation with lots of implications that would probably require powers that be to review and any changes could go in a number of ways hypothetically

Yes, I’d say in Scotland deferral isn’t necessarily the norm yet, in that the majority of kids will start when they’re supposed to, regardless of age. But it’s definitely becoming more common and I think probably will become more so now that we have extended funding for early years. And it also seems that the education system is generally in favour of later starts.

Am I right in thinking that in Scotland children start in Primary 1 rather then reception? Is primary 1 more like England’s reception or it’s year one?

Yes - so here they get funded nursery from 3, which is an anti-preschool year. Then a preschool year after that. Then P1 - so anyone turning five between March-Feb is included in the same year group, now with the option to defer from Sept. I don’t know what reception is, do they start year 1 at 6?

Also P1 is generally play-led now.

@Florrieboo

4 is so young to start school isn't it? Do many other countries still start at 4? Where I am children are generally 5 turning 6, a 4 year old turning 5 would be the exception. My DD started the month she turned 6 and wasn't even the oldest in her class. My DS on the other hand started 2 months before he turned 5 and still in his final year of primary school is the youngest in his year group. I would defer.

Children have always started school at 4 in England but decades ago it use to the term or even half term nearest when they turned 5. So only those born in September and October would definitely have a full year at school.

For some reason, probably social mobility reasons, someone decided that all kids who are 5 before the 31st August should start attending school from September. This meant those born at the end of July and August would be 4 in the first year they attended school.

I know from my extended family, where most of my nephews are summer born, they were all doing well at school once they got to about 7.

The Scottish government published a report yesterday that shows estimated deferral rates rising y-o-y. In 2018 deferral for Jan/Feb birthdays sat at an estimated 48%.

For girls: 31% deferral for Jan, 45% for Feb
For boys: 45% Jan, 57% Feb

Most deprived 35% Jan/Feb
Least deprived 55% Jan/Feb

There is also significant variation by local authority with some local authorities close to 89% and others at low twenties. Again this is for Jan/Feb birthdays.

Although these are for Scotland the stats give an indication of how things may change in England if legislation is passed to allow deferral as a matter or course.

For girls: 31% deferral for Jan, 45% for Feb
For boys: 45% Jan, 57% Feb

Does this mean that 31% of children wandered to defer their place until January and 45% deferred until February?

Sorry if I’m asking a silly question but I can’t work out what all the information and percentages are actually saying?

P1 seems a lot like reception to me. Possibly they move quicker through the content, but very similar format and activities from what I can tell (5 year olds are rubbish witnesses!)

DD (August born) did reception last year and is now in P1 - so I have a direct comparison.

She's ahead of expectations for start of P1, although some differences in teaching style (plus it probably helps to relearn phonics when switching between a Birmingham accent and a Glasgow/East Dunbartonshire accent!) mean it's not too boring.

Not sure how much it being a composite class affects things though - I get the impression that she's doing some "P2" work - thanks to the pandemic she's had about as much school time as the class above...

I'd probably say that P1 would be half way between reception and year one - which would definitely fit with the cohort age...

@ThornAmongstRoses

The stats say that 31% of girls born in January and 45% of those born in February defer so that they start school at 5.7 rather than 4.7 - so until the following August.

I'm in the least leafy bit of a very leafy county, there some 4 year olds in the class, but the majority are 5 from what I've gathered.

Thank you Random.

Those numbers are pretty high aren’t they!

I would be interested to see how that compares to England.

Sorry for my inarticulate post it means that in Scotland in 2018 (remember Scottish cut-off for P1 entry is Feb 28)

31% of girls born in Jan were deferred
45% of girls born in Feb were deferred
45% of boys born in Jan were deferred
58% of boys born in Feb were deferred
35% of the most deprived were deferred (Jan/Feb born)
55% of the least deprived were deferred (Jan/Feb born)

Personally I think children in the U.K. start school too young.

But I wouldn’t defer as friendship groups form and your DD would be starting school as the new girl, the other children would have already settled.

But you know your child best, do what you feel is right for her.

35% of the most deprived were deferred (Jan/Feb born) 55% of the least deprived were deferred (Jan/Feb born)

What does it mean by deprived?

Children have always started school at 4 in England but decades ago it use to the term or even half term nearest when they turned 5. So only those born in September and October would definitely have a full year at school.

No they didn’t. They started the term beginning after their 5th birthday. The exception was, as you say children with September and October birthdays who started just before they were 5. Children with summer birthdays did not do reception but went into what we now call year one.

But I wouldn’t defer as friendship groups form and your DD would be starting school as the new girl, the other children would have already settled.

She wouldn’t thankfully as the school I’m in talks with at they would start my daughter in Reception - not going straight into Year 1.

Deprived - in terms of social index:

Most deprived - bottom 20% in terms of income/opportunity
Least deprived - top 20% in terms on income/opportunity.

Yes, I was in the 57% of boys who deferred with a Feb birthday. DS3 was in no way ready so he started at 5.5. As I said, there are talks about the cut off being the end of December, with ALL Jan/ Feb children waiting until the next year. It was gaining momentum before Covid, goodness knows now, though.

As a secondary teacher I can pretty much pick out the Jan/ Feb born kids who went at 4.5 after the first week of secondary, particularly the boys. It's not academic, purely socially and emotionally it really shows.

@Pixiemeat

Oh I should also say that I was put ahead a year in primary school - skipped year 2 and went into year 3 - as I was bright but then when my “adopted” year all left I had to stay behind and it was really really hard for me

Does this always happen? I have heard that secondaries aren't keen on skipping ahead so if you're put ahead for primary you may be held back to repeat a year before secondary.

@CecilyP

Children have always started school at 4 in England but decades ago it use to the term or even half term nearest when they turned 5. So only those born in September and October would definitely have a full year at school.

No they didn’t. They started the term beginning after their 5th birthday. The exception was, as you say children with September and October birthdays who started just before they were 5. Children with summer birthdays did not do reception but went into what we now call year one.

Not necessarily Cecil's When dc (23 and 25) half the class started September and the rest started in January. When I went to school I was a September baby and my sister April. I started in September and my sister summer term.but the was some sort of rolling system as half my class went up to juniors before me. When my nieces (early30) went to school they combined reception and yr 1 in same class Entry to school has always changed and I think also changes from school to school and la to la

Two bits of anecdotal evidence against this from me:

1. My son is also summer born and turned 4 five weeks before he started school this year. He LOVES school. It has totally changed his behaviour (which had nosedived during lockdown and not returned to normal even when he went back to nursery). He is a bright little button and he needed the stimulation of learning and socialising at school. I had also worried he might be a bit young but he was more than ready. He needed school. If I had kept him off for another year it would have been a nightmare for both of us!

1. Is your husband a primary teacher or a secondary teacher? I am a primary teacher and I can tell you that there have been several occasions where the brightest and most able child in my class was August-born. Even in Year One.

Remember, Reception is play-based learning and therefore a lovely gentle easing-in to a formal school environment. If you defer, does your daughter go straight into Year One? If so, I definitely would not defer at all.

IMO the only situation in which I would consider deferred entry for my child would be if they had a learning delay, and evene then only if I could guarantee starting them in reception the following year.

@BigBigPumpkin

Perhaps education professionals, presumably having awareness of amd access to the same academic studies that parents do, should be lobbying for ALL children to start formal education later.

Will never happen. They want parents back in work ASAP and don't like subsidising childcare. They'll just trot out that study that says for the most educationally disadvantaged, starting education early is advantageous.

Yep. When instead they should be dealing with why those children are disadvantaged, rather than trying to force all children into formal education too early in developmental terms, to the detriment of the vast majority.

@Boomclaps I understand your point however, an individual parent can only respond to the rules as they are. The structural issue is caused by the UK Government insisting formal education begin far too young. You sound extremely qualified in this area so I am sure I am preaching to the choir. The answer is for the Government to change legislation so that children begin school aged 6, and then (based on the research from other countries) not only are there better outcomes in general but the summerborn disadvantage pretty much disappears. Parents are not to blame for actung in their children's best interests to protect them as best they can from the ridiculous and damaging demand that they enter formal schooling at 4.

@Ickabog

But why am I responsible for that?

I don't believe the PP was implying you were in any way reposinsible for the decisions made by other parents. They were meerly pointing out that other parents may not be happy with their child starting school at 4, but weren't in a position to defer.

All parents have an equal opportunity to do this for summerborns if they wish to

When we were in a continental system our DC started on or very shortly after their 4th birthday wherever that fell in the year. They joined a combined Y1/2 class and would then spend around 2 years in that class, moving up to Y3 once ready.

We found this a good system. No mass influx of 4 year olds. A steady roll of new arrivals. The more responsible 'old lags' (5 year olds) would be expected to help look after new arrivals. The teacher was never without a new starter sat on her knee but she had enough knees for the new starters to get that attention.

Reading/writing wasnt taught until Y3 but Y1/2 was spent on learning fine motor skills. By the time they start reading/writing in Y3 they then have the skills and end up with beautiful handwriting!

When we moved back to the UK I could always spot DD1's work on classroom walls from the other side of the room as her handwriting was so neat!

The English system does seem to be very hooked up on precise ages for doing things rather than readiness.

I would do what you feel comfortable with. However, I wouldn't underestimate the importance of friendship groups and moving up from nursery with her little peers.

Also, it is mostly play.based in the first year. Would you daughter prefer being on her own with you for the year - or playing with friends? Children are meant to be playing lots with other children.

Also, what about the future? Will she go to high school a year later too? How will she feel as a teenager that she is in an earlier year?

I was a summer baby and easily did well at school (although went off the rails at A levels).

She may seem young but the the whole of her class will also contain other Summer born children. There even be another child younger than yours!