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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be disgusted with Qatars assault on these women?

352 replies

ChristmasStocckings · 26/10/2020 04:57

I'm honestly shocked at how these poor women have been treated and my heart breaks for them. How on earth did anyone think that this was ok? No one should be forced to have an examination that they did not consent too. There is no excuse for this behaviour.

www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/doha-dfat-registers-serious-concerns-after-women-pulled-off-plane-strip-searched/news-story/f4eb941d267c2211605238a574935995

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 26/10/2020 11:25

@TheRealHousewife

As a sexual abuse survivor (the news item was triggering) I find it abhorrent that women on this thread are justifying the sexual assaults the authorities (aided by Qatar) subjected these women to claiming its a different culture. If they had found a lady to be postpartum would you agree to a stoning too!

Totally unacceptable!

A casual glance of the MN threads where people ask "Should I move to the Middle East for work (or with husbands work) ?" reveals how much humans can ignore in the pursuit if a nice life. You'll get the odd post pointing out the structural misogyny and casual approach to basic human rights, but immediately followed by "you must try this shopping mall" or "this area is nice".
SeasonallySnowyPeasant · 26/10/2020 11:27

YANBU. The way these women were treated is disgusting. Pre-covid I travelled a lot for work but flat-out refused to go to places like Qatar, Dubai, KSA etc. where women are legally treated like chattel. I wouldn't send any of my female staff members there either.

Winterterrace · 26/10/2020 11:32

I hope the mother stays safe and they never find her.

ClareBlue · 26/10/2020 11:35

This should surprise no one. But we still are happy to let them run the world athletic championships, world football cup, completely dominate our horse racing industry, finance premier football, allow 2000 immigrants to die building stadia in 7 years, etc etc etc because they are rich and make some other people rich.

sergeilavrov · 26/10/2020 11:36

@UsedUpUsername No, because that’s not how decriminalisation works in the UAE. Salience of that issue only causes issues and instability, hence I said it will take a while for people to trust it. It was, however, one of the things I have worked on that I am most proud of. Notably, you can find articles about reports of rape where women aren’t noted as being arrested. This is how government-public communication works on sensitive matters. It’s a really interesting phenomenon common in autocracies.

Regardless, my point was to express utter horror at the behaviour of Qatar in sexually assaulting these women - and hope that not all countries are judged by their behaviour.

SerendipityJane · 26/10/2020 11:36

@SeasonallySnowyPeasant

YANBU. The way these women were treated is disgusting. Pre-covid I travelled a lot for work but flat-out refused to go to places like Qatar, Dubai, KSA etc. where women are legally treated like chattel. I wouldn't send any of my female staff members there either.
But unless you refuse to send any members of staff - and indeed refuse to do business - then you've just reinforced the patriarchy and removed the tiniest bit of pressure on Qatar to change.

(And just to play devils advocate, if you are in the UK and refused to send a woman because of her sex, would you not be opening yourself up to a charge under the Equality Act ?)

Tissueboxcover · 26/10/2020 11:36

@ClareBlue

This should surprise no one. But we still are happy to let them run the world athletic championships, world football cup, completely dominate our horse racing industry, finance premier football, allow 2000 immigrants to die building stadia in 7 years, etc etc etc because they are rich and make some other people rich.
This.
ancientgran · 26/10/2020 11:38

I hope the mother stays safe and they never find her. It is very sad for the baby isn't it.

mumwon · 26/10/2020 11:40

For everybody info other nationalities & presumably flights were checked - for those who say they would refuse - really? soldiers with guns forced women off plane & led them towards ambulances where they were than told to strip - no doubt there were threats of imprisonment -

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/26/i-was-absolutely-terrified-australian-witness-recounts-qatar-strip-search-ordeal

SeasonallySnowyPeasant · 26/10/2020 11:46

@SerendipityJane if any of my female staff desperately wanted to go then I wouldn't stop them. So far, all of them have preferred not to visit countries where they need a male escort, can be lashed if they report a rape etc. and have been grateful that I'm completely supportive of that preference. This has meant that the business contacts have had to come here instead, which is inconvenient for them and means the hospitality sector receives cash here rather than there.

SerendipityJane · 26/10/2020 11:50

[quote SeasonallySnowyPeasant]@SerendipityJane if any of my female staff desperately wanted to go then I wouldn't stop them. So far, all of them have preferred not to visit countries where they need a male escort, can be lashed if they report a rape etc. and have been grateful that I'm completely supportive of that preference. This has meant that the business contacts have had to come here instead, which is inconvenient for them and means the hospitality sector receives cash here rather than there.[/quote]
but you're still happy to do business with Qatar as long as it's other women that have to face such treatment ? Or am I misunderstanding somewhere ?

ClareBlue · 26/10/2020 12:00

If you really want to see how money corrupts then dealing with this country and the other two mentioned up post are the way to go.

Everything we hold as values in our society like equality, freedom of expression and assembly, democratic representation and fair government, fairness in law and legal process, proportionality of sanctions and rehabilitation, opportunity, education, all go out if the window when they bring the oil millions to the party.

If you are a climate change sceptic then at least see the developement of renewals in this context of defunding these regiemes

If the trauma of these women puts the spotlight on this regieme then something positive might come from their horric ordeal.

Or maybe the oil dollars will shut it down. I know which I am putting my non oil money on.

SerendipityJane · 26/10/2020 12:08

If the trauma of these women puts the spotlight on this regieme then something positive might come from their horric ordeal.

Not really. It's just the latest in a long line of shocking outrages from the middle east. It certainly won't be the last.

Mokusspokus · 26/10/2020 12:46

I see I was mistaken and they were in transit.

Utterly abhorrent. Its morally Vile but the attitude to women in these countries is Vile and this reminds us of what those female citizens go through.

Chanjer · 26/10/2020 12:53

Do people ITT think that strip searches and intimate examinations don't happen in the UK?

Mokusspokus · 26/10/2020 12:54

'' I can't believe some people think it's OK ''.. I know but some people used to defend apartheid because that's just what they wanted to do in South Africa... Who are we to Judge.

Shizzlestix · 26/10/2020 12:58

Absolutely barbaric. A country and society way behind the times with regards to its treatment of women.

SkedaddIe · 26/10/2020 13:03

Why can we never have a fucking conversation about women and sexual trauma without an avalanche of “But”s.

@Dyrne you're absolutely right

I want to apologise sincerely to all the survivors for my earlier comment.

This is the time, but this thread was definitely not the place.

I should've started a new thread.

I just felt really uncomfortable reading the rampant racism and xenophobia on this thread. It is those posters who I was aiming my comment at. I wanted to highlight the hypocrisy. I posted a link where the Australian authorities sexually assaulted a 16 year old girl, a child just last year. And the UK police have sexually assaulted thousands of children through improper stop and search.

And Jehovah's Witnesses object to blood being taken unless absolutely necessary. I don't want to be outing with the full details but the short story is I have supported someone irl who was traumatised as their child had blood taken instead of a urine sample, they were innocent and the circumstances in the investigation was dubious. Their concerns were dismissed and ignored because it didn't fit with the British view of normal.

ChaToilLeam · 26/10/2020 13:04

@movingonup20 Have a wee think about why that woman may have felt she had no other option but to abandon her baby. I can assure you she won’t have done it for shits and giggles. Hmm

SerendipityJane · 26/10/2020 13:15

I just felt really uncomfortable reading the rampant racism and xenophobia on this thread

Was that from squinting so hard to find it ?

Sorry, careful re reading of this thread, and I can't see signs of racism or xenophobia. Just a disgust at the regime(s) in place in certain areas of the world.

And if calling out behaviour like this is xenophobic, then count me guilty as charged. I'd rather be a xenophobe than an apologist for this barbarity.

Chanjer · 26/10/2020 13:19

What are the acceptable reasons to intimate examinations then?

Cos we do it all the time in the uk and I think it's kinda barbaric in any setting really but I don't hear the same language leveled at our own systems

SerendipityJane · 26/10/2020 13:23

@Chanjer

What are the acceptable reasons to intimate examinations then?

Cos we do it all the time in the uk and I think it's kinda barbaric in any setting really but I don't hear the same language leveled at our own systems

And up rolls another whataboutter to dim to remember we are talking about forced intimate examinations.

Frankly it's easy to see how womens rights are going backwards in the UK, if this thread is for real.

Friendsoftheearth · 26/10/2020 13:23

Just to make it clear when you are in the ME you are in NO POSITION whatsoever to stop anything, the police force and security staff are extremely forceful and all officers are armed, so the women ordered off the plane would have had no choice but to comply.

The issue of how staff are treated in the ME has become a massive problem in the last ten years. Housekeepers, cleaners anyone in service are at the mercy of their employers. All employees from overseas have their passports confiscated on arrival, they sign contracts that are binding with no exit clause for years at a time. Many are held against their will - and the level of sexual assault, rape and injury - and even death is never measured because their is no protection whatsoever.

No police officer anywhere is going to care what a maid is going through. It is worth considering that the rape of staff happens regularly and is largely ignored in the ME. So although I am very sad for the innocent baby caught up in this, his mother is far more at risk - and no one can be surprised that many, including the mother of this baby are resorting to this kind of desperate action.

This is happening in every single ME country.

I can not stress enough how little anyone cares, and yet British and western tourists still fly out there putting their own values casually to one side, and use five star hotels where human rights are abused, and women are effectively trapped there under 'contracts' with no means of escape and are raped, we are effectively propping up this barbaric trade in human life and no one batted an eyelid before the Australian women were frogmarched off the plane.

I hope this incident shines the most almighty bright light on the ME and shows the ugly underbelly of what is happening there. It is long overdue.

SerendipityJane · 26/10/2020 13:26

I hope this incident shines the most almighty bright light on the ME and shows the ugly underbelly of what is happening there. It is long overdue.

Probably better off hoping for something more realistic, I fear. I could have written that 40 years ago (in fact I did, but that's another story) so don't get your hopes up.

Chanjer · 26/10/2020 13:26

Frankly it's easy to see how womens rights are going backwards in the UK, if this thread is for real.

Isn't it?

Especially when people supposedly interested in womens rights don't know what happens in their own back yard
You think searches in the UK require consent? Grin