To be disgusted with Qatars assault on these women?

[ChristmasStocckings]

I'm honestly shocked at how these poor women have been treated and my heart breaks for them. How on earth did anyone think that this was ok? No one should be forced to have an examination that they did not consent too. There is no excuse for this behaviour.

www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/doha-dfat-registers-serious-concerns-after-women-pulled-off-plane-strip-searched/news-story/f4eb941d267c2211605238a574935995

Women don't just give up their babies unless they feel there is nothing else. You do not know this womans story. If she has been raped she would have to do jail time. If she wants to be free from jail she would have to marry her rapist.

This bears repeating.

@movingonup20

The way they were treated was disproportionate but it's also disgusting that a baby was left in a toilet, not sure why that flight was targeted but even in the U.K. it's illegal to conceal a birth. The mother was also likely to need medical attention and/or psychological help

What's your point?

They presumably would have checked all females of childbearing age which would include girls. My DDs both started their periods at just turned 10.

Does that put a different light on it for anyone who says their country they had to check which woman had committed the crime?

Agree with the PP who said these women would not all have meekly gone along with it.

So that's a certain ME airline off my list next time I'm travelling to Asia. I'll stick to my direct flights in future no matter what the cost.
Absolutely disgusting. These women had no idea at the time why this was happening to them. I get it's kind of not shocking because of where this happened but if you actually imagine yourself as one if those poor women. I certainly would be massively traumatised and I can't even bare a thought of my teenage daughters having to experience something like this too.
Absolutely disgusting.
Did this thorough investigation identify the poor mother??
No one just abandons a baby with out good reason. There probably is a very tragic and horrific story behind this.

I would strongly recommend the home countries of those assaulted make a significant stand against this. It is unbelievable in 2020.

Until the regimes in that area of the world run out of money (and that won't be a pretty sight) I am afraid that as a country, you, me and everyone is rather stuck with successive governments playing "hide the tongue up the arse" with these despicable countries. As pointed out with the "Death of a Princess" scandal way back when.

So rather than whinging on here, people really need to get with the programme, stop criticising our friends in the middle east and big up the UK for being happy willing and able to sell it's weapons to them.

Why do you think people are unaware of the arms trade etc?

I'm just interested.

Also the person saying upthread where was the outrage about the teen searched at a festival (I think that was this thread) yes there was outrage at the time.

The USA have done stuff as well around forced intimate searches of women in public and there have been some awful stories about prison search 'practicing'.

I'm sure there's plenty of stuff from other countries as well. This is the one in the news right now though.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

If you think that the mother will get any sort of help you are sadly very much mistaken.

She hasn’t had a choice, no one does that type of thing for fun and giggles.

Child abandonment (whether newborns, older kids or disabled kids) is often done out of desperation.

It’s still an incredibly cruel thing to do. Trauma doesn’t give you the right to abuse others.

But sexually assaulting women in the search for the mother was a monumentally horrible thing to do and I’m glad this is getting worldwide coverage ... weeks later.

@Cheeeeislifenow

Where do people draw the line at "dem is the rulez in dat country"? Forced birth? Rape? Beheadings just for being a woman? Some people's attitudes on here are astounding, how can you defend this attack on women?

Indeed. I’m gobsmacked.

Those poor women.

@NiceGerbil

Why do you think people are unaware of the arms trade etc?

If they are aware then it does no harm to mention it. If they aren't it does good to. Pretty easy decision tree really.

Almost as easy as deciding to weigh in with a load of "whatabouttery" from around the world which makes it look like the Qataris were actually paragons of discretion, sympathy and understanding. Which makes it look like an agenda, not a comment.

Personally I am pretty down on Middle Eastern countries. Almost without exception they cloak their medieval misogyny in "religion" and because of their wealth have corrupted our governments (not that it took much) so that they can continue their - frankly barbaric - ways.

The Qataris did this because they could. They also know that either the promise of $$$ or the threat of withdrawing $$$ is going to make the story go away.

I went through Doha airport just before the first lock down. There are cameras everywhere. There was building work going on, so maybe some areas were not covered by cctv.

The baby is said to be doing well, so we can assume it was at full term when born (or near enough).

A heavily pregnant woman in western dress would be easy to spot. Any woman wearing a veil and burka would not be so easily identifiable. It would be easy for her to conceal her pregnancy, and her face would be hidden.

I think that the chances of this baby having been born to a woman who was taking a flight are low. Most airlines have restrictions on woman in late pregnancy.

I do wonder if the mother was a worker at the airport. Whoever she is, my heart goes out to her.

The thought of giving birth in a lavatory then having to walk away from your newborn is just unbearable. And I don't believe for a single second that the authorities would have "helped" her. She must have been terrified.

This is NOT normal in the rest of the Middle East. Most of the Gulf currently have a blockade against Qatar because of the country’s relationship with terror groups, and this news has created a great deal of outcry amongst my colleagues in Saudi and the UAE. It has been dominating discussion for two days, and everyone is disgusted and recognised that this was a gross episode of sexual assault allowed to happen by Qatari institutions. This is very much abnormal in the region, where to touch a woman in such a way or to require it to be done is pretty much the most unacceptable thing you could do.

It’s nothing to do with Islam, or culture - it’s everything to do with Qatar and their specific norms.

It’s still an incredibly cruel thing to do. Trauma doesn’t give you the right to abuse others.

Well, it seems the abandonment did give the authorities in Doha the right to abuse other women.

@sergeilavrov

This is NOT normal in the rest of the Middle East. Most of the Gulf currently have a blockade against Qatar because of the country’s relationship with terror groups, and this news has created a great deal of outcry amongst my colleagues in Saudi and the UAE. It has been dominating discussion for two days, and everyone is disgusted and recognised that this was a gross episode of sexual assault allowed to happen by Qatari institutions. This is very much abnormal in the region, where to touch a woman in such a way or to require it to be done is pretty much the most unacceptable thing you could do.

It’s nothing to do with Islam, or culture - it’s everything to do with Qatar and their specific norms.

Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the UAE are all disgusting regimes that imprison women for having babies out of wedlock. And will jail you for reporting a rape unless you happen to have witnesses on hand.

It is horrific. No human rights there forget woman's rights

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

It’s still an incredibly cruel thing to do. Trauma doesn’t give you the right to abuse others.

Well, it seems the abandonment did give the authorities in Doha the right to abuse other women.

And look at us, pushing hard against it so other regimes will think twice before subjecting women to this inhumane treatment.

This is NOT normal in the rest of the Middle East. Most of the Gulf currently have a blockade against Qatar because of the country’s relationship with terror groups, and this news has created a great deal of outcry amongst my colleagues in Saudi and the UAE.

If Saudi Arabia expressed outrage at Qatars actions the universe might well implode on itself. Reality cannot bend that far.

@UsedUpUsername The UAE has decriminalised that, in order to encourage women to come forward. Eventually, that will happen in Saudi and other Gulf states too. While it will take time for people to become comfortable, I would hope people would see that as a really good step forward. These are relatively young countries, whose leaders have to balance their desire to liberalise with the threats posed by religious leaders. If they go too fast, and get ousted, every step forward in women’s rights will be eliminated. I, for one, don’t want to see that.

Why can we never have a fucking conversation about women and sexual trauma without an avalanche of “But”s.

This incident was awful, end of. These women were travelling home during a pandemic, likely a stressful and upsetting time as it is. They are then marched off a plane and ordered around with no explanation; and with no idea of what would happen to them if they don’t comply. That is terrible and should be roundly condemned.

Why do people always pop up on these threads trying to justify or turn attention away from this?

“But it’s legal in this country”. I don’t give a shit, I can still find it abhorrent. Plus given we’re in the middle of a global pandemic these women didn’t exactly have a lot of choices on where to transit through to get home.

“But it was a medical procedure!” Oh I’m sure that’s fine then, that makes a coerced, unexplained, invasive examination all OK then?

“But they were trying to find the mother!” Yes and we can all still express disgust that it was apparently deemed quicker and easier to set up and perform invasive internal exams over the multiple other, non-invasive ways of finding a recently postpartum mother.

“But you haven’t condemned literally every other instance of sexual assault or sketchy ME country ethics; so you’re not allowed to condemn this one”. Piss off with your Whataboutery.

Exactly @Dyrne this thread is a shit show.

@Dyrne

Why can we never have a fucking conversation about women and sexual trauma without an avalanche of “But”s.

This incident was awful, end of. These women were travelling home during a pandemic, likely a stressful and upsetting time as it is. They are then marched off a plane and ordered around with no explanation; and with no idea of what would happen to them if they don’t comply. That is terrible and should be roundly condemned.

Why do people always pop up on these threads trying to justify or turn attention away from this?

“But it’s legal in this country”. I don’t give a shit, I can still find it abhorrent. Plus given we’re in the middle of a global pandemic these women didn’t exactly have a lot of choices on where to transit through to get home.

“But it was a medical procedure!” Oh I’m sure that’s fine then, that makes a coerced, unexplained, invasive examination all OK then?

“But they were trying to find the mother!” Yes and we can all still express disgust that it was apparently deemed quicker and easier to set up and perform invasive internal exams over the multiple other, non-invasive ways of finding a recently postpartum mother.

“But you haven’t condemned literally every other instance of sexual assault or sketchy ME country ethics; so you’re not allowed to condemn this one”. Piss off with your Whataboutery.

There's some fucked up people on this thread.

As a sexual abuse survivor (the news item was triggering) I find it abhorrent that women on this thread are justifying the sexual assaults the authorities (aided by Qatar) subjected these women to claiming its a different culture. If they had found a lady to be postpartum would you agree to a stoning too!

Totally unacceptable!

@sergeilavrov

I haven’t seen any evidence the UAE has changed. Sex outside of marriage is still illegal as far as I know. Do you have a link?

www.independent.co.uk/voices/dubai-woman-arrested-gang-rape-uae-sex-crime-local-laws-know-how-common-it-a7422336.html%3famp

I remembered this case, where an Australian woman was gang-raped in the UAE a few years ago and even had broken bones, but was still jailed for nearly a year. Horrifying.

I used to use that airline to go to Aus, often because it was cheaper but the thought that me and DD (almost 10) could be dragged off a plane so the authorities could sexually assault us makes my skin crawl. It could cause mental health issues which could negatively impact her for life both around medical people and future partners.

I will never fly with them again.

Absolutely disgusting that they did this, and can’t believe some people think it’s acceptable.