To be disgusted with Qatars assault on these women?

[ChristmasStocckings]

I'm honestly shocked at how these poor women have been treated and my heart breaks for them. How on earth did anyone think that this was ok? No one should be forced to have an examination that they did not consent too. There is no excuse for this behaviour.

www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/doha-dfat-registers-serious-concerns-after-women-pulled-off-plane-strip-searched/news-story/f4eb941d267c2211605238a574935995

But you have no right to pass on your own trauma and suffering to someone else either. Child abandonment is still child abandonment, even if we can sometimes sympathise (I’m thinking of some recent cases in the UK where mothers have killed or abandoned their SN children)

But this isn't like those situations, you aren't comparing like with like. There are also occasionally instances of babies being abandoned in this country, and the response isn't to round up every female person in the area and subject them to sexual assault at gunpoint.

[quote sergeilavrov]@MangoFeverDream Perhaps you misread or misunderstood: women used to be prosecuted for extramarital sex if they were raped. This is no longer the case, as the specific clause around this is no longer applied. It has been decriminalised in Abu Dhabi. Your article is not relevant to the issue at hand.

I have acknowledged that the region has a long way to go, while you continue to try and ignore the significant progress made in just a few years. It’s a shame that you want so badly to distract from the poor women who were assaulted in Qatar. How disappointing.[/quote]
You're derailing the thread. We know you're derailing the thread. Don't insult our intelligence by pretending you're doing from a position of concern.

[quote mumwon]@Orcus I am concerned about
the baby
the mother
the women who were assaulted as I stated in pp
I put in links with guardian articles about what had happened to the women, mentions about the issue of not knowing who else had been affected the reason why this older woman was the only one to have given interview to the papers (imagine giving an interview after this if you had been through this) by the by she witnessed the girls (her term!) going into the ambulance & also she along with them were interviewed after this. Apparently the women were together on the bus when they arrived in Sydney (on route to their isolation hotel) & it was than reported to the authorities. The police have been informed &they are investigating & the embassy has been complained to by Australian Government officially. Within one of these articles it mentions other women of other nationalities were affected &, I repeat, we have no idea of the ethnic or religious background of the Australian women/girls - its a multicultural country
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/25/australia-demands-answers-after-women-taken-from-qatar-airways-flight-and-strip-searched
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/26/i-was-absolutely-terrified-australian-witness-recounts-qatar-strip-search-ordeal[/quote]
Indeed we don't, which is why the poster whatabouting re Aboriginals was so very far in the wrong.

You think the US would do anything about a Muslim woman being debased by airport security? I’m afraid you have no concept what’s happening there if you think that.

I don't think that. What I said is that at least she is a citizen of that country and there are democratic and legal channels through which she can pursue it.

The women forced to submit to intimate/genital examinations in Qatar (and look at the purpose, not to prevent terrorism but to pursue an undoubtedly unmarried mother) have no such channels. As I said their countries can make noise but nothing will be done.

In any case, back in the case you've tried to drag into this (and made no sense whatsoever in claiming it was proof that embassies would not be burned down by Islamic extremists) .... I'm from a culture that was until recently associated with terrorism. The terrorists of course are few and far between/unrepresentative and it's insulting to me and most other people I know from my region to be associated with them, in a way I can imagine most Muslims would feel.aboit being associated with Islamic fundamental terrorism.

However things were as they were in the past (terrorists from my culture/region active) I would understand why security staff might focus on me, and even why they might want to assure themselves that my explanation for padding around my crotch was the true, harmless one. It would be cringeworthy and embarrassing, but I would understand they were trying to do their job - and I'd appreciate that if I were doing their job I'd think "if I take that as gospel, it's becomes known/instant "pass" and terrorists using females (or drug smugglers) etc will default to it. What if it's not the mundane explanation; what if people die or are injured because I didn't check".

This law in Qatar - the reason behind the intimate exams forced on these women in their determination to catch (and punish) that poor woman is a very different kettle of fish.

The straws that the whataboutery folks and apologists, derailers on here are clutching at are certainly varied.

Oh and don't be so patronising about the US. Their problems/failures are hardly obscure - before Trump let alone after him ... But how does the US being deeply flawed make what the Qatari officials did to those women (and the reason for it) any less bad. It doesn't.

A bit more info - nb other flights affected & it also mentions about when other women complained
www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/women-from-10-flights-taken-for-medical-examinations-at-qatar-airport-australia-s-foreign-minister-says/ar-BB1asg0P?ocid=msedgntp

[quote mumwon]A bit more info - nb other flights affected & it also mentions about when other women complained
www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/women-from-10-flights-taken-for-medical-examinations-at-qatar-airport-australia-s-foreign-minister-says/ar-BB1asg0P?ocid=msedgntp[/quote]
Like hell the Qataris are distressed about what has happened. Distressed that women will no longer be travelling through Doha perhaps.

@SaskiaRembrandt

But you have no right to pass on your own trauma and suffering to someone else either. Child abandonment is still child abandonment, even if we can sometimes sympathise (I’m thinking of some recent cases in the UK where mothers have killed or abandoned their SN children)

But this isn't like those situations, you aren't comparing like with like. There are also occasionally instances of babies being abandoned in this country, and the response isn't to round up every female person in the area and subject them to sexual assault at gunpoint.

The people who are defending these assaults sound sociopathic, probably MRA's come here to be goady. I wouldn't respond to them.

Women have a decision to make as to whether we should continue to support this kind of barbaric assaults on other women by choosing to holiday/host business meetings elsewhere.

A firm message should be sent to those that countries that persecute women and girls that we will not tolerate it any longer, supported by our governments that they will no longer be deemed safe countries to visit, and should be permanently removed until they are able to show concrete measured evidence of change and improvement.

The shiny and expensive tourism sector will amount to nothing if it attracts no visitors, we hold much power than we realise.

Boycott the countries that are no longer ethically or morally capable of showing respect for women - it is really as simple as that. Book elsewhere and make it clear to everyone around you why you have chosen to make those choices.

The Australian foreign affairs minister, Marise Payne, would not name the other countries whose citizens were affected, but Agence France-Presse reported that one French woman was on the flight.

Which legitimately raises the question as to whether any UK citizens were involved, and how far you'd trust the UK government to stand up for their rights if there had been.

The media seem to be saying strip searched now which is a bit euphamistic isn't it to say the least.

I suspect the government of Qatar are suddenly shocked and concerned as it looks bad and might stop women (and their families) visiting our using them as a stopover / the airlines not using them any more.

Money and reputation.

This is awful.

I suspect the government of Qatar are suddenly shocked and concerned as it looks bad and might stop women (and their families) visiting our using them as a stopover / the airlines not using them any more.

Yes, shocked and concerned about how unacceptable the rest of the world thinks this is rather than shocked and concerned about what actually happened, I suspect. I really hope that women and their families take note of this and don't stopover in Qatar in future.

We need to take action by not visiting or doing stop overs in Qatar. That’s the only solution. The U.K. govt will not help except to advise that women have to take care.

I've just been shown a Doha news segment that makes it clear they're going after this poor women for Attempted Murder.

They've justified the "examinations" of the women as being part of an attempted murder investigation.

So - fall pregnant outside marriage in Qatar - be arrested, imprisoned, sent home, lose job (mist workers are from poor countries and families desperately need the money).

Go into premature labour while presumably trying to leave Qatar to avoid the above, panic and abandon baby because of the above - arrested a d prosecuted for attempted murder.

I don't want to check the sentence for that.

And that's not even getting onto their treatment of all the women they forced intimate examinations on in the pursuit of that poor woman.

I hope to fuck she got out of Qatar.

Attempted murder?! The baby is alive and well and being cared for by the authorities.

Depraved and disgusting lies to cover for what has become a global headline exposing Qatar, seems now they are doing damage limitation in their own country - it won't wash here (or there I imagine!)

I too hope she is thousands of miles away too Poor thing what a tremendously difficult thing to live with.

@GilbertMarkham

What about the link I posted upthread about Muslim woman who was forced to pull her pants down in Boston when she she was on her period and not allowed a lawyer? Why were no embassies burnt then?

Most likely because she's an American citizen.

Are fundamental Muslims going to attack American Embassies over an American woman (who incidentally as a highly educated professor at an American Uni is not exactly confirming to fundamentalist views regarding female roles)?

In any case, her search was because the official felt padding at her crotch and wanted to confirm definitively it was not something illicit/potentially dangerous. She explained she had her period and it was sanpro but they wanted to confirm that, which is not totally beyond the realm of reasonable behaviour in a country that has suffered terrorist attacks on planes. Obviously she is being profiled because she is Muslim and she is also an extremely unlikely candidate to be a terrorist, but the first question if another attack/incident happened in a plane or at an airport would be why the person was not thoroughly searched.

I don't know if it's normal for her to be denied having a legal representative present at a search in the US.

She is legally pursuing a case for a pattern ongoing harassment when leaving & entering her home country (US).

The circumstances are very different from this mass examination of women to try to catch a new mother and arrest her. But as other posters have said you're just tripping over yourself with your whataboutery.

You're basically saying Muslims should put up with being humiliated by being stripped, even down to their period-sodden underwear because other Muslims may be terrorists? And denied a lawyer when requested?

What absolute bullshit, I don't care what culture you're from, it's disgusting to have one rule for Australian women and another for Muslim women.

@SerendipityJane

The Australian foreign affairs minister, Marise Payne, would not name the other countries whose citizens were affected, but Agence France-Presse reported that one French woman was on the flight.

Which legitimately raises the question as to whether any UK citizens were involved, and how far you'd trust the UK government to stand up for their rights if there had been.

Considering our honoured and respected PMs performance in the Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe case, perhaps any British women involved would be better served without government intervention.

When "Qatar" gets entwined in your search engine ...

www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/18832725.conor-howard-face-extradition-qatar-empty-cannabis-grinder/

This jumped out at me:

“Qatar is one of Interpol’s biggest abusers, misusing the system as a means to harass, extort or punish foreign nationals.

“Extradition proceedings are initiated by Qatar, not because there is any genuine expectation of success but for other, more sinister, reasons.

“Given the number of frivolous Interpol red notices issued by Qatar, Interpol should already have suspended the nation’s membership and Greece should never have been put in the awkward position of unfairly detaining and prosecuting a British national at their own cost, on behalf of a wealthy Gulf state.”

(contd)

Just reading the news -

Qatar's Government Communications Office said in a statement: 'The subsequent procedures taken by the authorities at the airport, including examining a number of female passengers, revealed that standard procedures were violated.

'Those responsible for these violations and illegal actions have been referred to the Public Prosecution Office.'

--

I'm guessing, as the forced examinations were carried out by female medics, that the female medics will be the ones prosecuted. Which would fit with the general state of affairs about how women are treated.

This has probably gone quiet around the world, but here is an article from Australia.
Apparently the baby was "Asian'. My guess is the mother fled because she was unmarried.
An earlier article which I cannot find now, said they identified the mother as all work entrants to Qatar have blood taken. The found her via a blood test on the baby, but the mother is no longer in Qatar.

www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-24/qatar-officals-say-mother-of-abandoned-baby-identified-fled/12913702