To wonder WHY parents can't afford to feed their kids isn't being addressed?

[BearPomBear]

Just that really....

@Ilovecheese53

You have just called me a liar twice and advocated for no free food, when you yourself are actually getting extra money, so you don't need it.

Good for you.

[quote chickenyhead]@Ilovecheese53

You have just called me a liar twice and advocated for no free food, when you yourself are actually getting extra money, so you don't need it.

Good for you.[/quote]
Just because your not entitled to it many are. If you don’t claim WTC that means your way is TOO high! But you get the vouchers! So that’s fair enough.

How would you actually know what I need? Your salary is probably higher than mine considering you don’t claim WTC.

@Jellycatspyjamas

One is feckless parents, either substance abuse or criminal activity.

You do know that the vast majority of people who misuse substances have a significant trauma history, usually in childhood. Gabor Mate has some excellent research and writing in this area, the same can be said for criminal activity. Those “feckless” parents were the children we now worry about and try to protect and support. We forget that those children who were vulnerable in childhood grow up into adults for whom the world has never been a safe, predictable place. There’s very little in the way of proper trauma recovery services (by which I mean long term therapeutic support - not whatever alphabetti spaghetti therapy is flavour of the month.

There are very few parents who don’t love their children or who actively try to do them harm. There are lots who just don’t know how to cope with the demands of daily life.

I think there’s a lot of truth in what you’re saying and I agree in part with most of it.

It’s definitely more likely that kids from chaotic homes etc (that witness domestic abuse, substance abuse to name but a few - and generally not a great childhood) will have more demons to bare as adults.

In comparison to say children from middle class suburbs, stable with parents that have no money worries etc... This group certainly got the advantage.

However, there are plenty of people that get out of that circle of poverty, substance abuse etc and don’t want to recreate their childhoods for their children. I’m not saying it’s easy but it’s not impossible.

The shit lives they’ve had as children is often what makes some strive to do more with their lives. So I think whilst it’s certainly more difficult with more hurdles, it’s not always a justification

However, there are plenty of people that get out of that circle of poverty, substance abuse etc and don’t want to recreate their childhoods for their children. I’m not saying it’s easy but it’s not impossible.

Absolutely I agree with you, there are families who do manage to pull themselves out - sadly many of the supports that would help them do that are being eroded. I wanted to push back on the idea that those who can’t get out of it are feckless, but yes it’s important to recognise those who don’t continue that cycle.

Biggest cause of child poverty is the parents not remaining together and/or parents failing to pay maintenance. Marriage was shit for a lot of people but at least society could see who was responsible for paying for a child.
Followed by high cost of housing and insecure work.

Most of the time it’s pride. The parents who genuinely can’t afford to feed their kids, won’t be able to feed themselves either - I know several families where all the adults and kids over 13 take turns to go hungry each day (ie eat nothing) so the younger kids can have a decent meal.

Slightly off on a tangent but it's important to note. It's a stereotyped myth that domestic abuse is a mostly working class issue. Behind closed doors it happens all too often in middle-class homes.
The stereotype isn't just insulting for the majority of working class families but it's also dangerous - because it keeps the spotlight off the middle-class abusers. Many are able to cover up abuse precisely because services assume it wouldn't happen in those families.

There were several domestic violence murders reported during lockdown that happened within affluent families. Who knows whether a HV or GP or social worker didn't dig very deeply because it was a 'naice' family.

[quote TantieTowie]Added to the many reasons above, remember that one in five are disabled
www.leonardcheshire.org/about-us/facts-and-figures[/quote]
Unfortunately too few people care about the disabled. Things badly deteriorated when Blair launched his war on the disabled. I must one day find and post some old screenshots I've got from media reports at the time of his disability 'benefit' reforms. They note the narrative encouraged.

I really feel for disabled adults. I think they should be included in any campaign for help with food. Too many are currently struggling to survive on just £74 a week (plus housing help that doesn't necessarily pay their full rent).

What a terrible message for disabled children. Once you turn 18, to hell with you. Poor things. Disability doesn't magically disappear when someone reaches the age of majority.

@GrumpyHoonMain

Most of the time it’s pride. The parents who genuinely can’t afford to feed their kids, won’t be able to feed themselves either - I know several families where all the adults and kids over 13 take turns to go hungry each day (ie eat nothing) so the younger kids can have a decent meal.

This is really shocking. Are the families unable to work? Are they living in a rented house that’s too expensive?

Work. Work doesn't necessarily mean families can all eat.

"getting rid of the benefit cap , the two child limit, the five week wait for UC"

If I start a new job I have to wait 4/5 weeks to be paid. Until pay day that is. It's not awful that people on benefits wait a month, that's what working folk do.

Number of children- I worked out how many we could afford to give a good quality of life to and then used contraception.

I have fail safes behind me, mortgage that either one of us could afford for a month or two and life insurance so if one of us gets ill the mortgage still gets paid. Ive planned for my future.

@Marmitecrackers

I completely agree with you.

72% of kids in poverty are from working families.Time for better pay

I think its much more complicated than this. I think many people want it just to be fixed but there are so many different factors that contribute that there is no quick fix solution.
I also dont think there would be the resources to actually find out why and then deal with it. It can be as simple as financial, it can be drug/alcohol issues, mental health issues, poor education, poor choices, bad priorities ans sometimes even parents just not being nice. Im sure others can think of more reasons too.

@Marmitecrackers

I agree to. I also think that wages / incomes need addressing so that people do not rely on benefits to make up for low income.

too

72% of kids in poverty are from working families.Time for better pay
But how many of these are PT? Many parents opt for a lifestyle of working as few hours as needed to spend more time with their children so they can see them growing up, then cry that they are too poor to feed them.

I totally agree that rental are too high. Sadly, when the government keep taxing LL more and more, this what happens. I am a 40% tax payer, so 40% of rent gors straight back to the pot. Add mortgage, insurance, agency fees, and the saving to ensure repairs, redecoration, potential court fees and void times, I'm actually making a loss on it. The only benefit is hoping that the equity will go up.

Taxing on capital will put the majority of landlords who only own one property in that same position, unless they are lower earners or retired.

But how many of these are PT? Many parents opt for a lifestyle of working as few hours as needed to spend more time with their children so they can see them growing up, then cry that they are too poor to feed them.

Are these the same parents who are vilified as ‘chaotic’ when they are working full-time so they don’t see the kids? Who produce the same kids vilified /turning out as feral kids left to roam with no one to look after them?

Just pointing out the contradictions here. We need to accept as a society that kids need looking after and that modern economic demands in a low-pay high-work hours economy driven by inheritance is in direct conflict with that. As a baseline. Fwiw the people I knew who complained most during lockdown were those where both parents worked full-time.

@Marmitecrackers

so you could afford your mortgage on one salary for a month or two, what would happen if that became 3 months, 6 months , a year?

It’s too complex to deal with isn’t it. Locally the place near me that was tackling it was the Childrens Centre, guess what, they closed them all.
They provided cheap fruit and veg and were trying to educate parents on how to cook/shop.
There was a parent at DDs primary who I suspect had a undiagnosed learning disability. She can’t plan enough to shop, cook, sort her money. She can’t understand why if she spends a lot of money on clothes she doesn’t have money left. She was being supported by the children’s centre. Not anymore. They eat a lot of takeaway. There’s lots of high interest credit about that she can take advantage of and probably never get out of debt.

I do have a well educated friend, very middle class, who basically had too many children, there’s no easy way to say it. When they were small she boasted how another ‘made no difference’. Well then she had 6 teenagers and they all do make a difference and she has struggled to feed them. I grew up as a family of 5 children and she saw how we struggled to manage and didn’t learn (and I suspect food was way cheaper in the 70s). I don’t think people really understand how much more expensive children get as they get older.

Are these the same parents who are vilified as ‘chaotic’ when they are working full-time so they don’t see the kids? Who produce the same kids vilified /turning out as feral kids left to roam with no one to look after them?
Never heard that ever. Feral kids have crap parents not working FT parents. The two are not correlated.

Fwiw the people I knew who complained most during lockdown were those where both parents worked full-time
Complained about what? Not that they couldn't afford to feed their kids.

@MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes

But how many of these are PT? Many parents opt for a lifestyle of working as few hours as needed to spend more time with their children so they can see them growing up, then cry that they are too poor to feed them.

Are these the same parents who are vilified as ‘chaotic’ when they are working full-time so they don’t see the kids? Who produce the same kids vilified /turning out as feral kids left to roam with no one to look after them?

Just pointing out the contradictions here. We need to accept as a society that kids need looking after and that modern economic demands in a low-pay high-work hours economy driven by inheritance is in direct conflict with that. As a baseline. Fwiw the people I knew who complained most during lockdown were those where both parents worked full-time.

But other people manage

@dontdisturbmenow

72% of kids in poverty are from working families.Time for better pay But how many of these are PT? Many parents opt for a lifestyle of working as few hours as needed to spend more time with their children so they can see them growing up, then cry that they are too poor to feed them.

I totally agree that rental are too high. Sadly, when the government keep taxing LL more and more, this what happens. I am a 40% tax payer, so 40% of rent gors straight back to the pot. Add mortgage, insurance, agency fees, and the saving to ensure repairs, redecoration, potential court fees and void times, I'm actually making a loss on it. The only benefit is hoping that the equity will go up.

Taxing on capital will put the majority of landlords who only own one property in that same position, unless they are lower earners or retired.

If people can afford to work part time that’s fine, but it isn’t a god given right.

Before we had kids we worked out our monthly income, factored in nursery costs etc and worked out what hours I could afford to cut back. We made many sacrifices in order to allow this.

At one point (with 2 dc in nursery) our nursery bill was higher than our mortgage and my part time wage only just covered the nursery bill (until dd1 qualified for the few free hours). Basically I was working to keep my job open.

We shopped very cheaply, didn’t buy luxuries, holidayed for 1 week in uk in May when cheap, had rubbish old tv etc.

Now dc’s are in school we are in a more comfortable position, but I am always careful to only buy things I know we can afford to pay off if needed.

I am all for people who become unwell or suffer bereavement, or lose their job getting support in the short term to help them get back on their feet, but I don’t support being on long term benefits as a lifestyle choice. (Eg not those who are disabled or on top up benefits).

Never heard that ever. Feral kids have crap parents not working FT parents. The two are not correlated

Then you’re seriously sheltered because I hear it quite regularly. What are ‘good parents’? Last I checked that description included those who spent time with their children. You can’t teach them good manners if you’re not with them.

Yes but if you have to pay a mortgage etc.