To wonder WHY parents can't afford to feed their kids isn't being addressed?

[BearPomBear]

Just that really....

@KatieB55
Yes it's a terrible system. Trapping people in debt from the start.

When they first cut housing benefits, they had a transitional period (don't know when it stopped). People got 6 months full rent.

It would definitely help but it worked better in the days when people had more options of alternative cheaper accommodation to move to.

Now so few places take tenants on benefits that it's harder for people to move out.

That's why so many families end up in very expensive temporary accommodation, at huge cost to the taxpayer.

Mass council housing (no right to buy) is the answer.

[quote SheepandCow]@TableFlowerss
l don't even know if I want to ask what you mean by it's not social cleansing but instead 'social cleaning'?! Do you mean you think poor people are dirty?

That's the point about the need for mass council housing. London should not be the most expensive city in the world. (Nowhere should but we can only control the situation in the UK). Poor people need to live there too. You know - those essential workers. Cleaners, health and social care staff, etc.

Like I said. It's all very well telling people to just move - but that means they have to give up their jobs and lose their childcare.

And, the social and mental health impact of social cleansing does matter. Fractured communities, shattered networks. It has a cost. A social one - but also, on a less individual level, a financial one (in terms of increased social and mental health care costs, crime, etc).

Disability is very relevant. It's not a completely different thing. It's why many people need to claim benefits. Either for themselves or a child. It's why so many families (and individuals) are living in dire poverty.[/quote]
I meant social cleansing - was doing two things at once - it was a typo! Definitely didn’t mean social cleaning

It’s all very well saying poor people should be able to afford ti live in London, well yes in an ideal world of course that would be the case. Sadly however we live in a wealth driven society full of haves and have nots.

Is it fair? No it’s not but it’s a price we (working classes) pay for living in a capitalist society, whether wealth creates wealth.

I’m not happy about it, I thunk it’s disgusting but sadly it matters not one iota whether I think it’s a disgrace that the London housing stick is being snapped up by wealthy oils tycoons (and the like) that don’t even use it as their primary residency....!

Or that greedy business landlords up the prices simply because they can.

But what can be done in reality? That’s the way of the world. At leat further north there’s more realistic chances of being able to buy your own home.

@RunBackwards

Completely anecdotal if course but it seems to me (from my experience working in two high fsm schools) a very major cause of families being in fsm is absent fathers. I really don't understand why more isn't done to force father to support their children.

Of course we must feed their kinds if they won't but I agree the causes must be addressed too. The causes are many and complex but this one seems relatively straightforward to fix to me. Ok, not to fix completely but certainly to improve immeasurably.

Yep that's the case with my child & I.

I agree, more needs to be done to force fathers to take responsibility. The CMS are not fit for purpose. I've thrown my phone against the wall in exasperated frustration before now (not whilst around my child, obviously!)

@WizWoz

Or do you equally think that the NHS should stop funding infertility treatment? I do actually. The NHS should be servicing needs only, not wants.

Completely agree!!!!

"I do actually. The NHS should be servicing needs only, not wants."

Except that pulls away from a universal healthcare system.

Why should your child that you chose to have because you wanted them get any treatment? You should pay for your wants.

You wanted to have a child why should I pay for your antenatal treatment?

Why should the childless pay taxes toward education? You wanted to have children, therefore you should pay for them.

See once you go down that line it all falls apart.

@Jellycatspyjamas

I did a check on what my entitlement would be if my husband and I both lost our jobs. We would get around £1800 per month for four people, which sounds like a lot. It includes DLA for my child who has complex care needs and has a lot of medical appointments etc in normal times.

Rent for suitable housing would be £800 a month, council tax is £150 a month, electricity and gas another £80, we need to run one car which costs us around £120 for fuel and insurance (car owned outright), that’s £1,150 before food, any form of entertainment, clothes, shoes and doesn’t allow for anything breaking and needing to be repaired. So £650 for everything else. Allowing £60 a week for food (£230 a month) it leaves £400 for everything else eg phones, tv, wifi, clothes, shoes, insurances attendance at monthly hospital appointments etc. It would be doable - if quite tight - but mainly because I’m well established and don’t need to buy furniture, household appliances, kitchen good etc. If you’re starting out you end up buying these things, going into debt and then can’t get out of it.

Throw in return to school, Christmas, birthdays, school holidays and it becomes a bit of a joyless existence because there’s not much room in that budget for extras. It just takes a couple of unwise choices to get into a hole.

You wouldn't have to pay council tax if neither of you are working and you're both on UC. Just an FYI

I'm not sure where I stand on NHS funded fertility treatment. Infertility is such a devastating painful thing for people. But then I do see the other side because when we have to ration cancer treatments it does seem like a lesser priority for the funds. I don't know. It's a hard one.

However I don't think it (denying fertility treatment) compares to denying treatment to a child. It would be an actual living child that needs treatment, not the parent who chose to have them. It's not any child's fault they were born.

Sorry I jumped on you over a typo @TableFlowerss Typos are too easy on phones!

I don't think mass council housing would solve everything but it would help a lot.

I get exactly what you're saying. It's difficult with no really easy solution unfortunately.

@TomMRiddle

"I grew up in relative poverty, so have more insight than most,"

Which means that your parents got support to raise you, you shouldn't have been born using your own logic.

"I'm also a single parent who never received any payments from my children's father so I understand the difficulties of surviving in the absence of that, and without any other benefits."

So you get nothing? No tax credits, no child benefit? Never have?

Don't believe you.

Just another person telling fibs on the net to justify their iniquitous opinions.

Benefits & tax credits are to cover the resident parent's contribution to the child. The father still needs to contribute! The mother receiving benefits/tax credits does NOT absolve the father of payment responsibility! 😡

@TomMRiddle

Oh and you shouldn't have had children unless you knew your relationship was stable and the father good for his money.

I really hope you have never claimed anything ever, otherwise you are just a massive hypocrite.

But then all who espouse personal responsibility are.

There is a famous poster here who often likes to tell people how she never got any help to get to where she is.

Then you find out she's the privately educated daughter of a GP and a teacher.

Have you never heard of contraception failing?! Give your head a shake

There's a lot of reasons as listed above. I get fsm for my children. Their father left unexpectedly, no maintenance paid despite csa on his case. I work part time - can't afford to work full time due to cost of childcare being more than my wage. I private rent where there's a shortfall between the allowance and what a normal rental in the area is (and my house is basic nothing special), there is a cap to two children (I have 4). Two of my children also have a mild disability for which I have to buy extras which aren't covered on nhs. In the holidays the voucher scheme really helped us, however I think although the offer of free food would be A massive help from local cafes etc I am far too embarrassed to ask for help.

Of course I've heard of contraception failing but this was a response to a poster who repeatedly stated that people should be more frugal and plan for the unplanned so they didnt need benefits.

@grenlei

Council housing isn't and never has been means tested Tom, surely you know that?

Or are you just a middle class poverty cosplayer?

Actually yes it is and has been since 2013. You are means tested before you get the keys and every 5 years

@SBTLove

Saw your other comment, how is social housing subsidised? none in England gets built!! Rents can be high, private let’s are horrifically high and out of control.

I live in a brand new social housing house?

No no. Once you've chosen to have a child why should the state pay for your wants?

Infertility is a massive issue and way beyond the control of those who suffer from it. It should be included in a universal health system.

Why should those who are childless not from choice pay to school and treat the child you wanted to have?

@ThistleWitch

well apparently its because feckless women (notice the no men in this image) are spending their childrens money leaving them barefoot and starving ......

How dare you???

Some of us are single parents because of domestic abuse. Some because our husband died. Most of us are loving, devoted mothers.

What a foul person you are

@DC3Dakota
You wouldn't have to pay council tax if neither of you are working and you're both on UC. Just an FYI

Depends on the council. I'm a single unemployed parent (too ill to work but esa/pip assessment is caught in the covid backlog). I have to pay £77 per month council tax.

@randomsabreuse

I'm very much middle class and am in a much better position to feed my kids for the equivalent of the child benefit because I can ignore the cost of electricity (no overpriced key meter) and have good quality efficient appliances (A+ rated full height fridge freezer) so I can take advantage of special offers, cook things like jacket potatoes (combi microwave with special setting) and buy cheaper cuts of meat that need long slow cooking to be tender enough for fussy kids. I can also buy a slow cooker on impulse, and if push comes to shove run an expensive electric halogen heater.

All privilege that makes the basics cheaper...

I also have a car so I can access big supermarkets, buy cheap bulk packs of washing powder, pasta and toilet roll and (vitally important at the moment) access drive through Covid tests every time one of the DC gets a cough or fever so we get results within 12 hours rather than several days meaning no loss of income.

DH also (through the privilege of education) has a job where his employers value him and he can work from home and get paid even when I was in hospital...

The general principle that having more money makes life cheaper definitely applies!

👍🏻 So so true! I remember thinking this whilst walking round Costco. If only I had the money to buy bulk packs and had a garage to store it all in, I would save a fortune!

[quote TheFormerPorpentinaScamander]@DC3Dakota
You wouldn't have to pay council tax if neither of you are working and you're both on UC. Just an FYI

Depends on the council. I'm a single unemployed parent (too ill to work but esa/pip assessment is caught in the covid backlog). I have to pay £77 per month council tax.[/quote]
Wow that's crazzzzy. I didn't realise it was area specific.

Its been like that since council tax benefit was scraped in 2013(or thereabouts). Now each council sets their own rates of 'support'. Clearly mine are very low!

@BearPomBear

Just that really....

I haven't read all the replies, but surely there's lots of different reasons?

• Wages/benefits not covering all bills so not enough left to feed everyone adequately?
• Mental health problems?
• lack of cooking equipment (eg, working oven, microwave, etc? So many different reasons!

@WizWoz

Perhaps it’s more a question of why people insist on having children they know they can’t afford to feed? I have sympathy for those who’ve lost jobs or ended up in unexpectedly difficult circumstances, but others have purposely chosen to have children in the full knowledge they can’t afford them and the expectation that everyone else will pay to fund their life choices.

I agree. How many barristers etc on 6 figure salaries do you see with 5 kids or more, yet you see plenty of families with 5 plus kids where the parents are unemployed or on benefits. Then they’re complaining they’re skint! I despair 😩

@EmbarrassedUser

I think if you were to research a bit you would find there is a link between low income and the ability to access and manage family planning, and to deal with ‘accidents’.
I have seen a number of posts here from women with unplanned pregnancies in despair because they cannot afford them, not every will be able to access the right services and of course some will have moral or religious objections to abortion.

See once you go down that line it all falls apart
If it doesn’t result in illness or death then the NHS shouldn’t be paying for it. People who want treatment that doesn’t cure an illness should pay for it - infertility is no different to cosmetic surgery in that regard, it’s something people want but don’t need. And once a child is born it has its own rights and needs - it is not an extension of the parent.

Actually I’d be fine with paying for my own child’s education. I largely have to do that anyway because state education is inadequate.

Perhaps it’s more a question of why people insist on having children they know they can’t afford to feed? I have sympathy for those who’ve lost jobs or ended up in unexpectedly difficult circumstances, but others have purposely chosen to have children in the full knowledge they can’t afford them and the expectation that everyone else will pay to fund their life choices

Even if as you say a few do do that, a hell of a lot don't and genuinely fall on hard times and can't keep up with payments/food.
Should they all get tarred with the same brush and refused help just because of a feckless few?