To wonder WHY parents can't afford to feed their kids isn't being addressed?

[BearPomBear]

Just that really....

@GroundAlmonds both issues come hand in hand! If you address the root like I suggested then the rest of the problem will be much easier to address.

I’m not going to argue as you clearly just want to consider your own view on the debate..

[quote Ilovecheese53]@GroundAlmonds both issues come hand in hand! If you address the root like I suggested then the rest of the problem will be much easier to address.

I’m not going to argue as you clearly just want to consider your own view on the debate..[/quote]
How would you like to “address the root” then?

@grenlei

The estate down the road from me has a great local community enterprise with a cafe and shop selling things very cheaply. Their produce is surplus or short date items and donated by local supermarkets

We have schemes like this locally, except the food is given away free rather than paid for, in big bags of 2-3 days worth of food. People were turning up there daily demanding bags (despite having had one the day before, and before that) or bitching that the stuff is short date, or foods their kids don't like.

Likewise I know a few people who have volunteered to make (and deliver, before anyone pipes up about travel costs) dinners to families this week, and local businesses. Zero take up. What does that tell you?

The reality is that not everyone receiving benefits classes themselves as in poverty, some people are able to manage and live to an acceptable standard. Clearly some are not. But throwing more and more money at it, in isolation, won't help, especially not for those parents who don't or can't currently prioritise their child's needs.

You could give more money as food vouchers redeemable at local supermarkets. Might help, except the response is then 'but what about all the people without a local supermarket - that food money won't go as far there?'

Or maybe you offer free supermarket deliveries (I know Iceland already does this - yes you have to spend £40 but most people spend about that a week I think?) Although arguably if you're spending only £40 a week or less it's easy enough (unless you have a physical disability) to carry that amount of food home on the bus, or even on foot if your supermarket is in walking distance. I've never got a taxi home with my shopping although a neighbour of mine did it all the time. Why spend £10+ on taxis when the bus is £1.50? (disclaimer - I accept not ALL buses are so cheap, and some people don't live in reach of a bus).

Completely agree with you @grenlei.

If people were complaining about the food offered for free it doesn’t imply that they’re desperate or starving.

I think the community shop idea is a good one, where people can buy produce locally for the same price as a Lidl/Aldi etc, or even cheaper, without the need for travelling far. There is one near to my work

I think giving too much for free is wrong as people need to learn to budget and live within their means. It’s not fair on those who are managing on low income by cutting back on non-essentials if they see others getting stuff for free.

@Foobydoo

“The estate down the road from me has a great local community enterprise with a cafe and shop selling things very cheaply. Their produce is surplus or short date items and donated by local supermarkets. People pay a couple of pounds and can get a big bag of shopping. The staff also usually know who is struggling and give extras to them. It would be great if the government invested in more schemes like this so every town had them. Free bus travel for low income families would also be a massive help as it would give people more freedom to shop around.
In the short term though the government should have continued free school meal vouchers until at least April and used the time to invest.
They won't do this though, even though austerity has decimated local communities, as it goes against tory ideology. sad“

I think the community cafe and shop is a great idea.

I think the Tory’s ideology is to try and encourage people to take more responsibility for themselves and be less reliant on state help to try and help them to better themselves. Hence the moving to monthly not weekly payments in line with wages etc.

I agree with this to a point, but it’s obviously not working. I don’t agree with labour who want to throw money at people to increase their dependence on the state. I did agree with sure start though. I think there needs to be a middle ground which is fair.

I absolutely agree that whatever the parents decisions, it is not the fault of the child, and they deserve help. It’s finding the best and fairest way to do this.

@Watermelon999 @grenlei exactly giving food away will be endless. People will become reliant on it and then we will have major problems once it stops.

@Porcupineinwaiting

“Also, that's starvation rations for a teenager (although youd save on bus fare with them as not everyone would need to go).”

It’s what my teens have for lunch, and what I have too. Or just soup. We are not starving.

I take your point about the bus/multiple kids, so maybe it would be better to offer a delivery service for cheaper food, or community shops as mentioned above.

I still don’t think throwing money or vouchers at everyone as a short term measure is the answer.

Well it depends if parents don't have two pennies to rub together due to recent job loss.

In normal circumstances, it's cheap enough to provide toast, beans on toast, cheese, jam, ham, spread sandwiches. Noodles. Cooked pasta with some tinned tomatos. Asda do garden gang fruit for no more than a pound for a pack of apples, pears etc. You can be creative on a budget. For example. Pasta, £1 frozen mixed veg and cheese. My kids love it and the veg lasts at least 5 meals. There are many ways to feed children something. Fish fingers and mash. Pizza. Macaroni. Tinned soup. It's all very cheap, especially if you get own brand.

But I understand there's poverty. We've never had to experience it. But I don't doubt there are many families trying to live of £40 a week for food. Or worse.

In some cases people probably just don't manage their money or they can't cook or be creative. But the amount of people using food banks speaks volumes.

Also life is just expensive. It's uniforms, new shoes, new coats, technology, constantly having to pay for things for school events. Running cars, houses etc.

My partner's currently loosing £250 a month due to overtime being banned. Since march we've lost about £2000. Which is 5 months of the mortgage. It's hard for people right now.

A community shop especially for those in rural areas sounds like a great idea. Not expressly giving away food but making it available at the same cost as a budget supermarket or less.

You could combine it with meal planning suggestions maybe for anyone who needs them - without being too patronising I know there are many people (poor or not) who struggle with cooking, how to reuse leftovers etc especially if their parents or carers didn't or couldn't cook for them. Yes you can look on the internet for food tips and recipes or in a cookbook but that doesn't occur to everyone. It could be something as simple as showing how to make a basic pasta sauce from tinned tomatoes etc, that you don't need Dolmio (and in fact it will taste better!) or bulking out foods with beans and pulses. I guess this is the sort of thing Sure Start set out to do but wasn't entirely successful.

Teaching this in schools too (as well as budgeting, financial management, interest rates, how you can avoid getting into debt), so kids know this stuff from a young age, not once they are adults with families of their own.

@Watermelon999 I have 2 teen boys, both slim but shooting up. 2 rounds of sandwiches, crisps, biscuits, a piece of fruit and a glass of milk would be the minimum lunch here, usually they'll have a bowl of soup with that. I reckon they're on about 2,500 calories a day each at the moment minimum and they're only 13 and 15. I could find them cheaper than I do but not less calorifically.

@Jellycatspyjamas

You need to look out why some families are managing and some are not yet both families receive the same amount of money to live each month

Is it really beyond you to understand that different people live differently? Those folk who manage may have better executive functioning skills, eat cheaper food, have very few clothes, they may have practical help, or good cooking skills, or straightforward children who eat anything. It can be as simple as being able to pay your utilities by direct debit.

The family coping less well may have children with specific dietary needs, or additional support needs, or may live somewhere without access to cheap food. We don’t have cookie cutter families.

It could be that, or it could be that one family prioritises spending their money on the basics like food, gas and electricity...

Whereas another spends theirs on other non-essential things....cigarettes, alcohol, tattoos, sky, football season tickets, nails, takeaways, excessive birthday and Christmas presents, x box, PlayStation, puppies, holidays....

We know it happens, we’ve all known people like this. There needs to be some fairness in the system to ensure this doesn’t happen, so that those who live to their means are not unfairly penalised.

[quote Porcupineinwaiting]@Watermelon999 I have 2 teen boys, both slim but shooting up. 2 rounds of sandwiches, crisps, biscuits, a piece of fruit and a glass of milk would be the minimum lunch here, usually they'll have a bowl of soup with that. I reckon they're on about 2,500 calories a day each at the moment minimum and they're only 13 and 15. I could find them cheaper than I do but not less calorifically.[/quote]
I hear teen boys eat a lot! I have girls!

@WizWoz

Perhaps it’s more a question of why people insist on having children they know they can’t afford to feed? I have sympathy for those who’ve lost jobs or ended up in unexpectedly difficult circumstances, but others have purposely chosen to have children in the full knowledge they can’t afford them and the expectation that everyone else will pay to fund their life choices.

How many people actually do that- where’s your statistics and evidence?

And why are people demanding they want money rather than vouchers? At least with the vouchers the money will be spent on what its intended for (although some of the food vouchers actually can be used for other stuff other than food in supermarkets). UC has also been increased during Covid - can the increase not be paid towards food for children during the holidays?

Not everyone is on UC yet, so many have had no such increase actually.

And I haven't heard anyone asking for cash. Food would be best.

Not everyone on UC got the increase either.

@chickenyhead

Not everyone is on UC yet, so many have had no such increase actually.

And I haven't heard anyone asking for cash. Food would be best.

This is not true BOTH UC and the old system working tax credits got an extra £80 per month!

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander

Not everyone on UC got the increase either.

Really why not? I thought it was standard.

Because of the benefit cap. So families already surviving on less than the government say they need didn't get any extra. Despite their costs increasing for a lot of them.

@Ilovecheese53

Now that is untrue. I did NOT receive any extra, aside from the lunch vouchers. NOTHING.

I am on ESA, no extra was given.

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander

Because of the benefit cap. So families already surviving on less than the government say they need didn't get any extra. Despite their costs increasing for a lot of them.

But if you have chosen to have more than 2 children after the benefit cap was brought in you cannot expect it all. An extra £80 still can do a good shop when your struggling.

I didn't choose to have more than 2 children after the benefit cap was bought in

[quote chickenyhead]@Ilovecheese53

Now that is untrue. I did NOT receive any extra, aside from the lunch vouchers. NOTHING.[/quote]
It’s not untrue.

www.gov.uk/government/news/increase-to-working-tax-credits-what-this-means

@Ilovecheese53

I DON'T GET WORKING TAX CREDITS

You clearly know nothing

[quote chickenyhead]@Ilovecheese53

I DON'T GET WORKING TAX CREDITS

You clearly know nothing[/quote]
Many people either got one or the other. I didn’t get the vouchers but I got the increase. Calm down.