To wonder WHY parents can't afford to feed their kids isn't being addressed?

[BearPomBear]

Just that really....

@GroundAlmonds

While I think this is a lovely thing to do (plus good marketing for the business), my question is how do they know how many people need this? What if loads go to waste? How do they target the right demographic?

Well this is the problem when patchwork voluntary provision has to do the job of government, isn’t it?

@GroundAlmonds

Take up was low in our area. Perhaps it’s not needed. Or needs to be given to specific individuals only?

@Watermelon999 you forgot that there are 2 children - so £8. Plus the £6 to get everyone there and back on the bus.
Also, that's starvation rations for a teenager (although youd save on bus fare with them as not everyone would need to go).

A non-abusive parent is unlikely to sit back and watch their child starve to death, don’t you think? They would seek help. From SS, a church, gurdwara, shul, or charity. That doesn’t mean that poverty isn’t real. (confused).

Difficulties arise when someone doesn’t know that help exists or has no means to access that help. People who don’t know that churches would help, or that gurdwaras will provide food wouldn’t think to go there and there’s so much fear and stigma around social services that people will literally sit with nothing. It’s not that they don’t care about their children, they just don’t know where to get help.

You see it here sometimes in posts where folk have nothing and feel like they’ve exhausted all options.

Poverty reduces life expectancy significantly.

But for many of you maybe that's a good thing eh?

Take up was low in our area. Perhaps it’s not needed. Or needs to be given to specific individuals only

It’s bound to vary a lot by postcode isn’t it? If the government agree to tackle it, they can target it properly and the volunteers can stand down. OTOH, if you don’t target tightly, you remove some of the stigma, and it gets to a higher proportion of t target group. 🤷🏼‍♀️

@Watermelon999

nor everyone has access to an Aldi or Lidl

the nearest Aldi to me would entail a bus trip of £4. I also wouldnt like to get on a bus with a weeks shop so that would be a taxi home, about £7.
Lucky me - I can afford Sainsburys and a taxi

Difficulties arise when someone doesn’t know that help exists or has no means to access that help. People who don’t know that churches would help, or that gurdwaras will provide food wouldn’t think to go there and there’s so much fear and stigma around social services that people will literally sit with nothing. It’s not that they don’t care about their children, they just don’t know where to get help.

That too.

I was just rebutting the notion that “if child poverty were real, British children would be dying of starvation”, which is ridiculous.

@Livelovebehappy I agree.

I’m sorry but I don’t believe anyone cannot afford this.

Except you don’t have access to a supermarket, so it needs to be bought at your local shop where the bread is £1.50 and the ham is £3 for 6 slices and you need two, and they don’t do multi packs of crisps so you buy 12 packs of 10p crisps for £1.20. The fruit has sat there for so long it’s bruised and mouldy and each apple costs 20p and you need 10 because you’re feeding two kids.

So lunch is now nearly £9 and no biscuits or apples.

@Quaagars

Perhaps it’s more a question of why people insist on having children they know they can’t afford to feed? I have sympathy for those who’ve lost jobs or ended up in unexpectedly difficult circumstances, but others have purposely chosen to have children in the full knowledge they can’t afford them and the expectation that everyone else will pay to fund their life choices

Even if as you say a few do do that, a hell of a lot don't and genuinely fall on hard times and can't keep up with payments/food.
Should they all get tarred with the same brush and refused help just because of a feckless few?

It’s not few that do that to be fair. There’s many struggling families and the majority of the time it’s bigger families. Nobody wants to hear this point though.

You can read on here how many “accidents have happened” during Covid baby boom will be next year. If people had smaller families perhaps things wouldn’t be so tight finically!

It’s not few that do that to be fair. There’s many struggling families and the majority of the time it’s bigger families. Nobody wants to hear this point though.

Well it’s a point only an evil person would make isn’t it? “Sorry kid. Your parents have made a mistake/lost their jobs/been feckless/got ill/been abandoned/become disabled/screwed up the budget. So I’m fine with you going hungry”.

No I don’t want to live in a harsh, Dickensian world where children suffer for either their parents‘ sins or their parents’ misfortunes.

I’m not mad about having to live with harsh unempathetic people like yourself, either, but I am stuck with it.

Unless we a talking about the causes of structural inequality, who gives one about why parents can’t afford food for their child, it’s not the child’s fault. No one should be deprived of food because their parents are idiots rather than ‘the deserving poor’.

@GroundAlmonds evil? What on earth are speaking about. Did I mention anybody’s circumstances? Obviously if you have lost your job or fallen ill like many that cannot be helped.

HOWEVER don’t try and use that as an smoke scream (because you don’t like my opinion) of people having many children they cannot afford YET continuing to produce more kids....

It’s starts with education or lack of it’s a vicious circle and of living within your means is not addressed how can this be solved? It’s part of the problem.

Even people suggesting to remove the benefit cap why should it be removed? 2 children is sufficient! We live in a very entitled world!!

Perhaps they should provide some kind of benefit per child, say £21 per week for the first, and maybe £14 or so for each subsequent.
That way at least parents can keep their kids fed if nothing else.

@Watermelon999

Basically kids are missing out on 5 lunches over the course of a week....

Loaf of bread £1, bag of 6 apples /pears 40-50p in Aldi, pack of ham or cheese £1-£1.50. Multipack of crisps or biscuits 80p for 6. Water out of tap,

6 lunches = less than £4

I’m sorry but I don’t believe anyone cannot afford this.

The thing is some people live out in the sticks and only have an expensive local shop. They may have had to replace something last week and only have 37p left until the weekend. They could be paying the local loan shark off from when they had no choice but to get a loan to replace a broken fridge. There are lots of reasons.

The estate down the road from me has a great local community enterprise with a cafe and shop selling things very cheaply. Their produce is surplus or short date items and donated by local supermarkets. People pay a couple of pounds and can get a big bag of shopping. The staff also usually know who is struggling and give extras to them. It would be great if the government invested in more schemes like this so every town had them. Free bus travel for low income families would also be a massive help as it would give people more freedom to shop around.
In the short term though the government should have continued free school meal vouchers until at least April and used the time to invest.
They won't do this though, even though austerity has decimated local communities, as it goes against tory ideology.

Added to the many reasons above, remember that one in five are disabled
www.leonardcheshire.org/about-us/facts-and-figures

@GroundAlmonds evil? What on earth are speaking about. Did I mention anybody’s circumstances? Obviously if you have lost your job or fallen ill like many that cannot be helped.

I think it’s evil to respond to concerns about hungry children with an anti-intervention “point” about how their parents ate to blame.
Yes I do. That’s not an unusual opinion TBH.

HOWEVER don’t try and use that as an smoke scream (because you don’t like my opinion) of people having many children they cannot afford YET continuing to produce more kids....

What’s a “smoke scream of people having many children”? What do you mean? What’s your policy proposal? What’s wrong with practical efforts to feed hungry children?

MoonMelodies They already do at the figure you suggested! I assume you know this already(apologies if you didnt mean to be sarcastic) ,Child Benefit is meant for clothing children ,and things like Nappies ,School Uniform ,and so on.Most low income families seem to have the odds stacked against them from day one .Gas /Electric more expensive on key card or meter .Rent is very expensive all over UK, esp in London and the SE ,but also Towns like Manchester and Liverpool as well.Add on local shops ,as many cant afford to run a car and you are paying lots more than a big Supermarket, with well priced Apples ,Bananas ,and clementines .Let alone meat /fish /tofu whatever!

Perhaps they should provide some kind of benefit per child, say £21 per week for the first, and maybe £14 or so for each subsequent.

Perhaps they should also revise benefits above poverty level so that parents could use that money purely to feed their kids instead of needing it to subside excessive rent costs, clothes, shoes, utilities and other essentials children need.

I work in a school with high FSM and we have mainly two distinct camps of parents who claim FSM. One is feckless parents, either substance abuse or criminal activity. The second camp is genuine need, I’m no expert but it always seems that housing is a major factor. Families not keeping up with the rent and then getting evicted can only lead to chaos and further poverty for the kids.
Personally I’d love to see some sort of housing security given to help people establish lives on lower rent with secure contracts.

On another note, I am concerned that all the news coverage about FSM shows kids having a hearty dinner and I think this is what people imagine would happen if FSM were extended in to the holidays whereas in reality our school (and most others?) give out supermarket vouchers on the holiday which I worry would be misused/sold on by the first group of parents I mentioned above.

One is feckless parents, either substance abuse or criminal activity.

You do know that the vast majority of people who misuse substances have a significant trauma history, usually in childhood. Gabor Mate has some excellent research and writing in this area, the same can be said for criminal activity. Those “feckless” parents were the children we now worry about and try to protect and support. We forget that those children who were vulnerable in childhood grow up into adults for whom the world has never been a safe, predictable place. There’s very little in the way of proper trauma recovery services (by which I mean long term therapeutic support - not whatever alphabetti spaghetti therapy is flavour of the month.

There are very few parents who don’t love their children or who actively try to do them harm. There are lots who just don’t know how to cope with the demands of daily life.

@GroundAlmonds I have no objection that hungry children should be fed. However you need to address the issue there’s more to it than handing a parent a £15 voucher! You need to look out why some families are managing and some are not yet both families receive the same amount of money to live each month

The estate down the road from me has a great local community enterprise with a cafe and shop selling things very cheaply. Their produce is surplus or short date items and donated by local supermarkets

We have schemes like this locally, except the food is given away free rather than paid for, in big bags of 2-3 days worth of food. People were turning up there daily demanding bags (despite having had one the day before, and before that) or bitching that the stuff is short date, or foods their kids don't like.

Likewise I know a few people who have volunteered to make (and deliver, before anyone pipes up about travel costs) dinners to families this week, and local businesses. Zero take up. What does that tell you?

The reality is that not everyone receiving benefits classes themselves as in poverty, some people are able to manage and live to an acceptable standard. Clearly some are not. But throwing more and more money at it, in isolation, won't help, especially not for those parents who don't or can't currently prioritise their child's needs.

You could give more money as food vouchers redeemable at local supermarkets. Might help, except the response is then 'but what about all the people without a local supermarket - that food money won't go as far there?'

Or maybe you offer free supermarket deliveries (I know Iceland already does this - yes you have to spend £40 but most people spend about that a week I think?) Although arguably if you're spending only £40 a week or less it's easy enough (unless you have a physical disability) to carry that amount of food home on the bus, or even on foot if your supermarket is in walking distance. I've never got a taxi home with my shopping although a neighbour of mine did it all the time. Why spend £10+ on taxis when the bus is £1.50? (disclaimer - I accept not ALL buses are so cheap, and some people don't live in reach of a bus).

[quote Ilovecheese53]**@GroundAlmonds* I have no objection that hungry children should be fed. However you need to address the issue there’s more to it than handing a parent a £15 voucher! You need to look out why some families are managing and some are not yet both families receive the same amount of money to live each month*[/quote]
No I don’t. I’m perfectly well aware that some adults are more capable and have better life skills than other adults. I “need to look at” how we save children from being damaged by their family circumstances.

You need to look out why some families are managing and some are not yet both families receive the same amount of money to live each month

Is it really beyond you to understand that different people live differently? Those folk who manage may have better executive functioning skills, eat cheaper food, have very few clothes, they may have practical help, or good cooking skills, or straightforward children who eat anything. It can be as simple as being able to pay your utilities by direct debit.

The family coping less well may have children with specific dietary needs, or additional support needs, or may live somewhere without access to cheap food. We don’t have cookie cutter families.