Blaming Labour

[InsanityRocks]

Time and time again I see here that the only reason people voted for the tories was because 'anti-semite/terrorist/bad dresser Corbyn' AIBU to think that all these people voted for the racist/misogynist/self-serving Johnson knowing he is all these things as all his views come straight out his mouth, yet the anti Corbyn stuff is hearsay from the press/Russian bots/SM etc.

I don't think Corbyn would have made a good prime minister necessarily, he is too passionate, too idealistic. However, for all those saying he should have stepped down: he won more people to join the Labour Party than ever before, there was the beginning of a movement for change, real change. But members of Momentum joined to deliberately sabotage, along with the constant hum of how evil this man is, how dangerous from the right-wing big business and newspaper owners along with a growing feeling of mistrust manufactured by Russian social media destabilisation all conspired to make sure he failed.

We are all hating what is happening in this country now, but for the moment, the best way to tackle it is through socialism and inclusion. People seemed so scared of socialism, is it because it gets confused with communism? For covid and climate change and unemployment and mental health support and education and the NHS and all the other major issues that face us as a society at the moment, we need to work as a team, surely?

Although a recording given to the notoriously right wing guido site by a tory activist isn't really a good source now is it. Yes Guido forced John Ashworth to say that JC was a bloody liability on the election trail. Did they use thumbscrews?

The choice at the last election was horrific and scary

You're not kidding They say we get the politicians we deserve, but it beats me what most of us did to earn two as bad as that

Worse still, Covid or not, an 80 plus majority won't be easily overturned in just one election, so we could easily be stuck with Boris et al for the foreseeable ... especially if, as it appears, so many Corbyn/Momentum fans have learned precisely nothing

John Ashworth later retracted it though didn't he ?

But, JC hadn't been a liability two year previously. What changed?

"especially if, as it appears, so many Corbyn/Momentum fans have learned precisely nothing"

Its funny though, that Starmer is neither of these things, and is actually very centerist, very much a social democracy and yet he is already being pilloried and attacked by those on the right.

I despair when the left of the Labour party attack him too though.

I also think an 80 seat majority might be a one off, in a one issue election things might be very different come 2024.

But, JC hadn't been a liability two year previously. What changed?
Theresa May led one of the worst campaigns in election history and she still won.

JC hadn't been a liability two year previously

Two years previous to what - the election?
He lost the vote of no confidence among MPs by 172/40 in June 2016 and the election was three and a half years later ...

Attacks on Starmer by the Tories are to be expected and are failing. He is a grown up. He is a left leaning centrist. The current government is none of those things. And it is scared of him.

So you are quoting that from before the 2017 election? Which means that in the 2017 election JC had not been a liablility.

Same leader different outcome?

I actually thought Boris's campaing was worse than Theresa May's but he managed to play the one tune well, and enough people folllowed it.

Again, it was a one issue election, its really that simple.

I despair when the left of the Labour party attack (Starmer) too though

You and me both, but that's what I meant about some Leftists learning nothing
If ever there was a time to get behind a centrist and rebuild you'd think this would be it, but no - too many still can't get over the defeat of their hero and seem to think that, with just a bit more "explanation", the electorate will see the light and all will be well

So he didn't really lose did he? twice. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Only it's not fucking funny. Labour ran a shite campaign with a shite leader and we are stuck with this twatty government.
If he'd been any good, if Labour'a message had been any good, the defeat wouldn't have been so huge.
Read the fucking room.

I didn't say he didn't lose twice. Again you are twisting things, because your points are so poor.

I am reading the room, loads of people trying to shift the blame from themselves and from the government to blame people who aren't in power. Same way leavers blamed remain for their leave vote, and republicans Hilary for their vote for Trump.

If you voted for this, you own it. Don't blame anyone else. Own your fucking vote.

And it really is fucking funny, the changing of the facts, JC wasn't a liability in 2017 so why 2019? This question has been left unanswered because it shows my point is correct. But you just repeat the points given to you by the Tory media like they are correct, you might as well clap like a seal when they tell you to as well.

So you are quoting that from before the 2017 election? Which means that in the 2017 election JC had not been a liablility

Not really, no; the MPs realised by 2016 that Corbyn was a liability, but the Hard Left chose to ignore this and went right on backing him, meaning that he still failed to be elected even aginst that waste of space Theresa

Even then they didn't learn, and worse still another two years allowed people a greater insight into just what Momentum were capable of. Add that to the Brexit issue and, as predicted, they never stood a chance

it was a one issue election then JC handled the issue appallingly. He was so bad that people trusted Jo Swinson with their vote rather than him. I repeat... Jo Swinson

Because the Lib Dems had a crystal clear policy on that one issue. Nobody really had a clue what Labour’s stance was. It wavered in the wind.

The fact is that people looked at Boris, Jeremy and Jo and tried to imagine them as PM. Then the majority held their noses and voted for Boris. Along with 'Get Brexit Done' It was a brilliant slogan.

@derxa

The fact is that people looked at Boris, Jeremy and Jo and tried to imagine them as PM. Then the majority held their noses and voted for Boris. Along with 'Get Brexit Done' It was a brilliant slogan.

The fact is that didn't happen.

More people voted something other than Tory than voted for this shower of shit, but because of our stupid system, the majority was ignored and we got twat face.

If you voted for this, you own it. Don't blame anyone else. Own your fucking vote. I do own my vote and would never have voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I vote for someone who wants to lead. Unfortunately JC was never a good leader. He was a totem. I'm not interested in political purity and dogma.

@VinylDetective

it was a one issue election then JC handled the issue appallingly. He was so bad that people trusted Jo Swinson with their vote rather than him. I repeat... Jo Swinson

Because the Lib Dems had a crystal clear policy on that one issue. Nobody really had a clue what Labour’s stance was. It wavered in the wind.

Yes - there was a twin complication. Lib dems were the only party one could support if one wanted to try and avoid Brexit, but that was complicated by our stupid electoral system, which some people seem to understand and others less so.

More people voted something other than Tory than voted for this shower of shit, but because of our stupid system, the majority was ignored and we got twat face. The same stupid system that brought Tony Blair 3 election victories

I'm not interested in political purity and dogma.
Nor I am I. I am interested in policies that shift the burden of taxation back towards richer people and business, reversing the Thatcherite settlement that moved the burden of taxation disproportionality to poorer people.
Only Labour was promising anything vaguely like that last election.

@derxa

More people voted something other than Tory than voted for this shower of shit, but because of our stupid system, the majority was ignored and we got twat face. The same stupid system that brought Tony Blair 3 election victories

Indeed it was - Tony Blair, a warmonger and Labour traitor. In opposition, he courted Lib Dems and signalled and interest in PR when it looked as if that might be the only way to get some more socially progressive policies. Once he managed to get power using Thatcherite policies and techniques all that was forgotten, just like the anti-EU platform he stood on previously and his opposition to ID cards when they were a Tory idea. I'm not the one tied to party dogma in this story.

"I'm not interested in political purity and dogma."

Neither am I, but you can't go round claiming that the current problems of the country lie at Labour's feet if you voted Tory.

@Puzzledandpissedoff Labour MP's took issue with Corbyn in 2016 over the remain campaign, the candidate they stood against him was a remainer and would have done far worse in 2017 than Corbyn did.

But blame Corbyn, abolve yourselves from what you voted for. Its fine. It is very fucking funny to see you try to shift the blame though, not from those in power fucking it up, whom you backed, but someone else.

Like all right wingers, victims.

The same stupid system that brought Tony Blair 3 election victories

Quite - but then Blair could carry the centrist vote with him, something the Hard Left will never be able to do no matter how much they cry "unfair"

Tom, I spoiled my ballot. I have a half decent Labour MP who tried to dump Corbyn and, like me, voted Remain. But I could not bring myself to vote for Labour under Corbyn. I wouldn't vote for any other party.
I live in a Red Wall Brexit supporting seat. Labour only won because the Brexit vote was split.
Your childish belief that everyone who hated Corbyn voted Tory is symptomatic of your inability to understand non-Corbyn Labour.

but you can't go round claiming that the current problems of the country lie at Labour's feet if you voted Tory.
^This
If you voted Tory, this is what you supported and could reasonably have expected. This isn't some weird surprise-fest of non-Tory policies.

I totally understand non Corbyn Labour, when I was a party member I didn't vote for him.

I voted Lib dem.

Your hatred of Corbyn appears not to be factually based more based on your own prejudices.

You haven't been able to explain how Corbyn betrayed the working class like you said.

You haven't been able to explain why he was suddenly such a liability that he was the decisive factor in losing the election just two years after he won more seats and a larger share of the vote?

If you take my answer, that it was a one issue election, which swung it for the Tories, and that this has a huge likelihood of being a one off ( especially after the last 11 months) then it actually works.