Blaming Labour

[InsanityRocks]

Time and time again I see here that the only reason people voted for the tories was because 'anti-semite/terrorist/bad dresser Corbyn' AIBU to think that all these people voted for the racist/misogynist/self-serving Johnson knowing he is all these things as all his views come straight out his mouth, yet the anti Corbyn stuff is hearsay from the press/Russian bots/SM etc.

I don't think Corbyn would have made a good prime minister necessarily, he is too passionate, too idealistic. However, for all those saying he should have stepped down: he won more people to join the Labour Party than ever before, there was the beginning of a movement for change, real change. But members of Momentum joined to deliberately sabotage, along with the constant hum of how evil this man is, how dangerous from the right-wing big business and newspaper owners along with a growing feeling of mistrust manufactured by Russian social media destabilisation all conspired to make sure he failed.

We are all hating what is happening in this country now, but for the moment, the best way to tackle it is through socialism and inclusion. People seemed so scared of socialism, is it because it gets confused with communism? For covid and climate change and unemployment and mental health support and education and the NHS and all the other major issues that face us as a society at the moment, we need to work as a team, surely?

From your article Boris claims to be a " Progressive Modern Conservative"

He isn't.

Keir Starmer with his council estate kid made good did fit what the members wanted, don't forget he got more votes than Jeremy Corbyn got in 2015. Unless there is a miracle, we are stuck with the conservatives for the next 4 years. I hope Keir Starmer continues calling Boris & his cronies out on every lie & cockup they make.

No political party should allow anyone to be hungry, the government should be a united force where everyone is equally treated not the rich getting richer, or the poor getting poorer. Its a sad reflection of the world that you only eat if you can afford it when the earth provides enough to feed the world.

How abhorrent that people walk past the homeless with bags costing in excess of 1k.

So what? Individual MP's can have individual beliefs but it doesn't mean the party is like that.

He was the shadow chancellor.

Was the manifesto Marxist?

I haven't got time to look at the manifesto now - did they include this?

“This is confirmation that Labour would bring the policies of Venezuela to Britain,” Tory MP Priti Patel."

"Housing Secretary James Brokenshire describing them as a “tax bombshell”. He said: “These proposals are extraordinary and deeply damaging in equal measure. Labour will stop at nothing to hammer families with more tax and make home ownership a pipe dream for future generations."

“Plans to seize land into public ownership also show Labour’s true colours of more and more state control.”

www.theweek.co.uk/101566/labour-s-progressive-property-tax-explained

@ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN

Do you really think senior members of government and agencies never hold discussions with terrorist groups. The IRA were very powerful and had been for a number of years. She made this claim (wrongly) as governments do time and time again internationally. Is it in the best interest for the public to know when the public are fearful of all talk and negotiations that go on.

And one wrong claim doesn’t excuse what he did. He was not a senior member of the shadow cabinet, he had absolutely NO influence at all (Unlike the PM) and it was a complete disregard to his fellow colleagues and their families. If at the time there was rolling 24hr news and the internet there is no doubt he would have been sacked as the vast majority of the public would find this unacceptable, luckily for Corbyn times were different unlucky for Labour on the long run

Many PMs just refuse to comment on security issues. Thatcher chose to try and make political capital from it by deliberately lying through her teeth. She didn't need to do that, it was a choice.

I also wonder about those who claim that Labour had forgotten about their roots, when looking at party policy.

Increasing the minimum wage.
Cheaper utilities through nationalisation
Better protections for workers
Eradicating in work poverty
Requiring breaks in shifts to be paid, getting rid of 0 hours contracts

There was a lot more.

How is that abandoning the working class?

Ah see, what you really mean here is that they weren't prepared to listen to bigotry (and yes it is bigotry) about the impacts of immigration. Which of course the Tories and Brexit party were able to do.

This is just pandering to people's prejudices for political expediency not really listening.

Where in the red wall has there been large amounts of Immigration.

Not In North West Durham or Bishop Auckland, not in the Blyth Valley, not in Sedgefield or Bolsover, nor Don Valley.

Hahah Clav, using quotes from Tory Ministers to discuss the Labour proposals... not what was actually in the manifesto.

And using a quote from Patel to do it too.

Its really fucking funny.

I know what happened Tom and I know he still defends his decision though last election he wasn’t quite so defensive

The government and shadow government were dealing with far bigger issues than dealing with a back benches who was a thorn in the side of every leadership and that would have included John Smith (I’m sure he would have supported Michael Foot another waste of years under his leadership- there is a pattern). I have for long wondered why he was in the Labour Party he is much more at home in the Socialist Labour Party but that wouldn’t get him a seat in Parliament

And no I didn’t vote Tory never have and I wouldn’t and didMy vote Labour under Corbyn (and also gave up my membership)

Thankfully now the left of the party are back on the back benches

And yes I am well aware of the difference between socialism and communism and countries that many claim to be socialist that actually are not

Some of your posts read like Rik Mayall in The Young Ones , Tom. 😂
I lived through Thatcherism while living in N England. I know what betrayal by the Labour Party looks like.

In which way did Corbyn's manifesto betray the working class?

I know you struggle with facts but come on, give it a go.

TomMRiddle
And using a quote from Patel to do it too.

Academics who endorsed Labour's manifesto included;

"One academic revealed the results of an online survey she had completed for fun - her result was 'Orthodox Marxist'."

"Participating in a group reading all three volumes of Marx’s Capital I determined to apply Marxist political economy to the understanding of social policy in advanced capitalist societies."

Again, doesn't mean that the manifesto was Marxist.

Struggle with critical thinking do you?

@TomMRiddle

Again, doesn't mean that the manifesto was Marxist.

Struggle with critical thinking do you?

Priti Patel and James Brokenshire - who seem to take it in turns to share a single brain cell - cited as authorities on a Labour manifesto? I’ve heard it all now. 🤣

In which way did Corbyn's manifesto betray the working class?

A quick post before I have to go out.

IFS (Institute for Fiscal Studies) November 2019;

“The Labour manifesto promises a number of benefits giveaways, most of which are small individually but which add up to a substantial amount. While quite a few of these pledges would benefit those out-of-work, there are no giveaways targeted specifically at low income working households; perhaps surprising given Labour’s target to abolish in-work poverty within 5 years."

Except there wouldn't need to be giveaways when the minimum wage was raised to 10 p/h, people would need fewer benefits.

Oh dear clav

Finding selective quotes again? You really are like a bad undergraduate.

What about better employment rights and job security that was promised in the manifesto?

Being unelectable because you are unappealing to the majority and so far up your own arse you can see what you had for dinner: that betrays the working class you are supposed to protect

That's not a good enough answer sorry and it doesn't actually explain your point. But I should have suspected that you wouldn't be able to.

Unelectable ? Lots of people voted for a party lead by Corbyn just two years previously which suggests differently. What was the difference in 2019, was it Corbyn? Was it the manifesto? Or was it that in a one issue election, the approach to the one issue lost the election. All the rest is just your personal bias.

Such a shame that the LibDems committed electoral suicide when Nick Clegg got into bed with the Tories and then alienated virtually all younger people and parents when he u-turned on tuition fees! The Libdems could have made some serious progress if they'd stayed true to their beliefs.

The Lib dems increased their share of the vote by 4.2 % this election.

Personally I believe it was a one issue election. If the Labour Party had stood on a second referendum basis, many remainers, including me, would have held our noses.

Exactly, its why the biggest swing of voters away from Labour was to the Lib Dems and Scottish nationals ( although this allowed the SNP to wipe out the Tories in Scotland).

The vote was certainly swayed by Brexit

Didn’t help that Corbyn took a neutral stand

And many people woke up the bubble had burst and people by then had witnessed what an utterly useless opposition leader he was that was enough for them to not vote for Labour

I definitely think Corbyn's neutral stand didn't help, but the opposition point isn't accurate.

The difference was Brexit.

Now the revisionists would like to make it about something else, because that allows it to be someone else's fault. But in reality the Tories ran their campaign one one major slogan, worked hard in the areas that they knew had voted overwhelmingly for that policy and won on that.

Everything else that comes after their election, is on them and those that elected them, no one else.

But then the trend shows that right wingers, despite having had the majority of power in both the US and UK over the last 40 years ( 24 years and 27 years respectively), having all the wealth, the best funded political parties, and occupying most of the positions of power in institutions over that time... are always the victim, its always someone else's fault

@TomMRiddle

The Lib dems increased their share of the vote by 4.2 % this election.

Yes, compared with the lows of 2015 and 2017, but still way down on Nick Clegg's "victory" in 2010 before he sold their soul.

2010 6.8 million votes
2015 2.4 million votes
2017 2.4 million votes
2019 3.7 million votes