to remind any Tory MPs on here that there is a reason people are having a go at you and it's not Angela Rayner's fault

[chomalungma]

MPs shouldn't be facing abuse on the streets.
Even if their actions are despicable and cause real harm to people
Even if their language, their tweets, their speeches in Parliament, media comments cause harm and belittle other groups.
They shouldn't face abuse.

But if you signed a letter because you think that being called 'scum' by Angela Rayner during the debate on Free School Meals resulted in abuse on the streets, then you seriously don't understand people.

There is a reason that people are calling Tory MPs scum because of their vote on FSM. And it's not Angela Rayner.

What do you think the reason is?

But she has stupidly diverted the debate from the real issues so it’s a bit of an own goal.

Oh - and just for clarity.
Name calling is wrong.
Labelling people is wrong. Dog whistling, using divisive language is wrong.
Angela Rayner shouldn't have said it.
People shouldn't be abusing and attacking MPs and their staff.

I can totally understand the level of contempt people have for Tory MPs though at the moment.

@MrsGrindah

But she has stupidly diverted the debate from the real issues so it’s a bit of an own goal.

I don't think it has though. It's allowed a lot of discussion about the policy and attitudes.

And the Tory response has just served to show how people their true colours.

Not with the Tories though.They are not re-thinking anything, they are just going “ Please Miss! She called us scum!” And the attention grabbing headlines that followed were all about her .

OP, while you trying your level best to get everyone to agree with you, you forget that Tories won and overwhelming majority at the GE less than a year ago. They have a mandate. You can call those MPs and the Tory voters all the names you like, but we know how the voting majority feel about the welfare state - it has been obvious in every GE since 2010.
Whatever you feel about it, Tory MPs will not suffer electorally as much as Labour does by putting the likes of Angela Rayner on their front bench.
This forum won’t like it much, but you know it’s a fact.

I think that it is entirely appropriate that AR is reprimanded for inappropriate choice of words in parliament. I've been in many meetings where I've had to tone my language and refrain from saying what I think because that is what we have to do to have a sensible discussion.

I also think that this letter is an attempt to detract from the vote itself and the implications of it.

[quote chomalungma]@derxa

Do you think that the reason Tory MPs are getting abuse is:

a) Because Angela Rayner called one scum in a debate in the H of C
b) Because many of them voted against children getting FSM vouchers which has been widely reported in MSM after a successful and popular campaign by Marcus Rashford?[/quote]
C) because Nicky Morgan suggested they reason many of them didn’t support it is because Angela Rayner was rude to them

@MrsGrindah

Not with the Tories though.They are not re-thinking anything, they are just going “ Please Miss! She called us scum!” And the attention grabbing headlines that followed were all about her .

Tory MPs have managed to undermine that with their own responses.

I can see the headlines:
Tory MPs vote down FSM voucher scheme
Councils and restaurants step into provide food
Tory MP says that FSM vouchers are being used for crack houses
Tory MP says that businesses who support children with meals don't need support from Government
Tory MPs complain about being called scum

Diddums poor tories getting abuse but at least they have full bellies and warm homes to go back to.

If they truly believe that the criticism they are facing is because of Angela Rayners comment and not their despicable values then they are more out of touch then we think.

My local MP has signed that letter. I want to say to him ‘mate, you’re not getting a barracking because Rayner called you scum. You’re getting a barracking because of the way you voted, when you represent one of the most deprived communities in England’.

That letter is classic DARVO

I don’t believe her comments are the primary cause of the abuse MPs are currently receiving, however if it’s deemed acceptable for our country’s leaders to use such language in parliamentary chambers then you can see why people would follow suit.
They choose to stand for public office so should be held to high standards. If you disagree with your MP’s voting record, let them know through proper channels and use your vote to show this in the next election - it’s called democracy.

C) because Nicky Morgan suggested they reason many of them didn’t support it is because Angela Rayner was rude to them

Thus proving they are scum. Funny old world.

Imagine a doctor or nurse refusing to treat someone "because they were rude".

But I agree it was inappropriate language, I should add. And unhelpful, because it’s being used as a handy distraction from the actual issue.

@Frazzled2207

Angela Rayner probably should watch her language in the house but none of this is her fault.

Agree with this, her comment was wrong but, and I am not a fan of the 'but' usually, but the MPs who signed that letter are also those who most champion free speech when others complain of upsetting remarks.

But Raynor's remark was not cool IMO. Heartless, yes. Cruel, yes. Dickensian, yes. Scum is just a rude insult, so not ok.

To be fair, Angela Rayner does behave like a babymama on Jerry Springer, in Parliament and in tv debates.

That's a bit harsh. I think most of the people on Jerry Springer are a bit sharper than Angela Rayner.

I want to see more genuinely working class women in the commons but it's a shame one of the few is an idiot.

I expect she'll be out anyway in KSs reshuffle.

I'm sure he'd love to but he can't, she's directly elected. She'll continue to try to shore up Corbynite support with stuff like this but she won't want to piss Starmer off so much he side-lines her. Starmer, in turn, doesn't pick fights he can't win.

Theresa May is looking positively statesmanlike at the moment compared to that shower.

Christ, we really are in the shit.

I used to work in the Commons with a lot of MPs. The Tories weren't a homogenous mass of scum. There were some amazing Tory MPs and some scumbags. Ditto Labour. Ditto Lib Dems.

People shouldn't be abusing and attacking MPs and their staff.

No , but I don't recall anything like the level of outrage when Diane Abbott was on the receiving end.

chomalungma
Oh - and just for clarity.
Name calling is wrong.
Labelling people is wrong. Dog whistling, using divisive language is wrong.
Angela Rayner shouldn't have said it.

Why does Angela Rayner continue to tweet a certain label directed towards gay men published by Boris Johnson in 1998? As far as I am aware, Boris Johnson hasn't repeated that description for over 20 years - but Angela Rayner (and some other Labour MPs) continue to tweet it at every opportunity - even in her position as deputy leader of the opposition. If Owen Jones has complained (quite rightly) that the label has been directed towards him, then the name callers most certainly learnt the description from people such as Angela Rayner, not Boris Johnson. Her moral superiority is lost with political point-scoring.

Clav is here, let the lame ConDefence begin!

Rayner rightly calls out Johnson for making homophobic slurs. Is that what you mean by 'a certain label'? You seem to be minimising homophobia, which is low even for you.

Has Boris Johnson changed his behaviour in the last 20 years? I can't say that I have seen any evidence of it. If he hadn't been called out for those remarks in the past, he would still be making them today.

You seem to be minimising homophobia

Quite the opposite, I can assure you. I don't want my dc hearing that description from Angela Rayner - they weren't even born when it was published by Boris Johnson (and as far as I am aware he hasn't repeated it) - Angela Rayner tweeted it as recently as last month.

@Clavinova

Hello. You took your time

Tory MPs are receiving abuse. Verbal abuse and intimidation is wrong.

Why do you think there is real anger towards Tory MPs at the moment?

Oh - and I am not going down the things Tory MPs have said even just last week that shows the hypocrisy of this letter.

This thread is about the reasons why Tory MPs are receiving abuse.

I could easily start a thread on the sheer hypocrisy of this letter.

Peregrina
Has Boris Johnson changed his behaviour in the last 20 years? I can't say that I have seen any evidence of it.

"In Parliament, Boris Johnson was an early pro-LGBT rebel. Despite his early beliefs, Johnson’s legislative record is markedly more liberal."

"Elected to Parliament for the first time in 2001, Johnson rebelled against his own party on several occasions to back LGBT+ rights measures."

"Defying the Conservative leadership at the time, Johnson voted in 2003 to abolish Section 28, which banned the “promotion” of homosexuality in schools, and voted in 2004 to permit civil partnerships for same-sex couples."

"Alongside George Osborne and John Bercow, Johnson was one of just a handful of Tory MPs who were willing to back the Labour government’s LGBT+ reforms."

"As Mayor of London, Boris Johnson backed equal marriage.Serving as Mayor of London from 2008 to 2016, Johnson led the city’s Pride parade on several occasions."

"Two years later, he backed the Out4Marriage campaign calling on the government to pass equal marriage, adding: “I see absolutely no reason why that happy state should be denied to anybody in our country and that’s why I am supporting the Out4Marriage campaign.”

"After becoming Theresa May’s Foreign Secretary in 2016, Johnson scrapped a controversial ban on Pride flags being flown from UK embassies and consulates around the world."

"The Foreign Secretary also met with Russian LGBT activists and praised their work on a trip to the country in 2017."

www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/06/18/boris-johnson-lgbt-rights-record-anti-gay-slurs-liberal-stance/

It's a little rich that Labour scum are using the term to abuse others, but I think MPs - especially front benchers - should be above using abuse in Parliament. Especially as there are microphones everywhere.

There was uproar from the usual Labour loudmouths a few months ago about the tone of language in the Commons, alleging that it was stirring up hatred and would lead to another Jo Cox situation so it's nice to see their usual hypocrisy on display here.