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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Christmas - following the rules or not?

570 replies

BIWitched · 22/10/2020 20:42

From what we know right now (and accepting that things may change in the next few weeks) if you're in tier 2 or 3 re you going to obey the rules about not mixing households indoors?

YANBU - I will be ignoring the rules
YABU - it's my civic duty to obey the rules

OP posts:
MrsFezziwig · 25/10/2020 11:50

As things stand we will be ignoring the rule that says don't move out of a Tier 3 area but we will be going to self catering accommodation in a Tier 1 area which means we'll be allowed to go to my mum's house/go to church/the cinema with her and my dad (they live separately but get on).

So not only ignoring the advice about travelling but once you get to a lower tier area going to multiple places? Way to go.

froggygoneonakillingspree · 25/10/2020 11:55

I refuse to follow the rules because the rules are arbitrary and lack common sense, and because I know my own common sense will absolutely not endanger anyone.

I live alone. I work from home (have always worked from home). I don't go out except to go for long walks in the forest and occasionally to the supermarket. I don't know a single person who is elderly or medically vulnerable and there's very little chance of me passing it on to anyone vulnerable. I don't come into contact with children or people going to work or anyone who might be in a position to spread it around.

I never come into contact with anyone except for my boyfriend (who also lives alone and works from home and is basically an agoraphobic workaholic hermit) and my best friend who also doesn't go out much, and who has OCD so she's hyper vigilant about things like hygiene and mask wearing.

My best friend has a severe mental illness (psychosis) and I'm basically her sole source of MH support right now. The idea that I'm not allowed to see her unless it's outdoors is just total bullshit. I'm clearly a very low infection risk and the chance of me having COVID (without any symptoms) is incredibly low.

I simply don't accept that me walking to her house and sitting in her massive living room 2m apart while both wearing masks and with the doors open (banned) is a bigger risk than us both sitting on crowded buses so we can meet in a local park or sit outside a cafe (permitted).

There's tons of stuff that's far more risky that I am allowed to do (like eat in cafes, go into crowded shops, take public transport cheek by jowl with hundreds of strangers). That's all fine, but two people sitting far apart in a living room is verboten?

So I'm going to continue to "illegally" meet my friend inside her home in the knowledge that such an act can't possible endanger anyone or increase risk and is far less risky that many permitted activities.

MrsFezziwig · 25/10/2020 11:56

I’ve had an idea - why not make it a simple choice? Either your child can go to school or you can have as many people as you like round at Christmas. The fact that you can only have one of these options will in itself reduce transmission.

I’m not bothered either way so just let me know what you decide.

Freakeconomics · 25/10/2020 11:57

No we will not be following the rules but neither will we be causing covid to spread. Myself & DH work from home and want to spend Christmas with my Parents and my x2 DB who all live together and also work from home. Myself & DH will isolate for two weeks before Christmas and they will do same then we will drive the two hours to spend the Christmas holidays with them.

Racoonworld · 25/10/2020 11:59

@MrsFezziwig

I’ve had an idea - why not make it a simple choice? Either your child can go to school or you can have as many people as you like round at Christmas. The fact that you can only have one of these options will in itself reduce transmission.

I’m not bothered either way so just let me know what you decide.

I would 100% agree with that. Then everyone gets the choice of what they can do without endangering a whole school of kids and families. I don’t have school kids and will reduce what I do before and after Christmas so know I won’t be endangering my family or others based on my actions at Christmas.
Underhisi · 25/10/2020 12:03

froggygoneonakillingspree that would be classed as providing support to a vulnerable person which is allowed under all tier rules. I would do it anyway but you are not breaking any rules or guidelines in doing it.

RoseTintedAtuin · 25/10/2020 12:17

@MrsFezziwig

I’ve had an idea - why not make it a simple choice? Either your child can go to school or you can have as many people as you like round at Christmas. The fact that you can only have one of these options will in itself reduce transmission.

I’m not bothered either way so just let me know what you decide.

Seems like a sensible idea. That way those without children can still have a meaningful family Christmas and those with children can have the nuclear family Christmas. The current rules are unfair to those without children as their freedoms and support have been severely curtailed to allow children to continue in school (and most have accepted this), they should be allowed some support over Christmas.
mbosnz · 25/10/2020 12:21

We'll be following the rules, but as much as anything, that is because following the rules is easy for us to do, with no extended family over here.

I completely understand that many are in a very different situation, with many complex circumstances at play, and I will not judge those who do otherwise. It's a bloody hard time.

CrappleUmble · 25/10/2020 13:09

If I had the option of being able to see extended family over Christmas then isolating for two weeks after, with no possibility of any legal sanctions for that and no issues with unauthorised absence for the first few days of term, I'd gladly choose it.

Sedona123 · 25/10/2020 13:27

@SqidgeBum

Here's a mad thought; what if these rules dont actually work? So many people are obsessed with the idea of following the rules and not seeing family so things get better. What if, in reality, it doesnt actually make a difference, because it still spreads through workplaces and schools and universities like wildfire, like it's doing.

Those who love the rules seem to have a huge amount of faith in those who have created the rules, when in reality, the government have no idea if what they are implementing is going to work. It's not like they have done this before. Not seeing your mother isnt going to make this any better, and those who think following the rules will be a magic fix are kidding themselves. Come February, we will be in the exact same situation we are in now. We already had a full on locked down for 3 months and look what happened, or has everyone just conveniently forgotten that? Or are we supposed to follow the rules forever and not see our families indefinitely? Are you adament rule followers ok with that?

Here's another mad thought; the people creating the rules are actually Epidemiologists. They're people who are experts in diseases, especially how contagious diseases spread. Therefore it's probably a pretty good idea to follow the rules and not think that you know more about epidemiology than they do. 🤦‍♀️
CrappleUmble · 25/10/2020 13:38

No, the people creating the rules are politicians. Epidemiologists have no power to make legislation.

ilovesooty · 25/10/2020 13:40

@Washimal

Do not complain when school bubbles burst or close. Do not complain when you can't visit elderly relatives in care, or dying relatives in hospital. Do not complain when you loose your job. Do not complain when the wait to see a specialist for a cancer scare is forever, or your operation gets cancelled, or there is no bed for your husband when he has a stroke or your kids when they are in a RTA. Just get on with life, hope these things happen to other people and not you- because only you matter.

All of this is already happening, which I think is why so many people increasingly feel less inclined to follow “the rules”.

That's completely illogical though! Yes, things are shit right now, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take steps to prevent them from getting worse. I agree with your comments about track and trace. The Government's handling of covid has been reckless and shambolic, but anyone who justifies doing as they please for Christmas by claiming it's some sort of 'fuck you' to Boris and co is either being disingenuous or deluding themselves. It is ordinary people who will suffer if the NHS is overwhelmed, schools close and we end up in another national lockdown. The poor and the vulnerable will suffer most.

Spot on.
pincertoe · 25/10/2020 14:19

Planning to follow the rules here. We usually have in laws come to us. Sad they will have to spend the day alone but plan on making arrangements to send Christmas dinner over in a taxi for them.

SqidgeBum · 25/10/2020 14:30

@Sedona I am pretty sure no epidemiologist worth their salt would advise that 'the virus spreads when you see your mother for a cuppa, but doesnt spread you sit in a classroom with 30 sniffy children for 5 days a week'. That's government, not science.

supadupapupascupa · 25/10/2020 14:38

Absolutely sticking to rules. The quieter the better. But then there is no one who will be in their own in our family.

DdraigGoch · 25/10/2020 14:48

@Elphame

As Drakeford has yet to tell us what the rules will be in 2 weeks, never mind for Christmas it’s impossible to say whether I will obey them or not.

I’m sure he’d love to ban Christmas if he thinks he could get away with it.

I agree. If/when he does, I shall certainly be sticking two fingers up and ignoring him.
DdraigGoch · 25/10/2020 14:54

@MrsFezziwig

I’ve had an idea - why not make it a simple choice? Either your child can go to school or you can have as many people as you like round at Christmas. The fact that you can only have one of these options will in itself reduce transmission.

I’m not bothered either way so just let me know what you decide.

Sounds like an excellent plan for those of us who are single and childless. After all, why should we be made to be alone at Christmas to mitigate infections in a setting that none of us have anything to do with? As none of us are parents of school age kids we aren't risking schools.
Chaotic45 · 25/10/2020 15:07

@CrappleUmble I love Christmas but crikey your Christmas must be epic if it's worth isolating totally for two weeks afterwards!

Wouldn't you need to do the same before too if you wanted to reduce the risk of passing it to the people you share Christmas Day with?

Chaotic45 · 25/10/2020 16:14

@DdraigGoch I'm not sure if you're saying that you see the rules as being in place in order to keep schools open?

I guess that's partly true- in that closing schools is one thing that the government are trying to avoid. Although it seems that they really are trying to keep them open regardless of infection rates.

Surely though we are trying to keep infection rates down for a while gust of other reasons? Like the availability a hospital bed or appointment available should you one need it.

Or the major one surely- to avoid vulnerable people catching and dying from Covid!

Ginfordinner · 25/10/2020 16:21

Do those who are saying that they aren't following the rules believe that it makes no difference whether you do or not?

How do you know? How can you prove it?

CrappleUmble · 25/10/2020 16:26

[quote Chaotic45]@CrappleUmble I love Christmas but crikey your Christmas must be epic if it's worth isolating totally for two weeks afterwards!

Wouldn't you need to do the same before too if you wanted to reduce the risk of passing it to the people you share Christmas Day with? [/quote]
I was responding to the posts specifically about people with DC and schools rather than about safety, but the people I'd be seeing I either provide childcare to or receive it from, so no that wouldn't achieve much.

RedRiverShore · 25/10/2020 16:27

@MrsFezziwig

I’ve had an idea - why not make it a simple choice? Either your child can go to school or you can have as many people as you like round at Christmas. The fact that you can only have one of these options will in itself reduce transmission.

I’m not bothered either way so just let me know what you decide.

Shut all the schools and maybe just let the DCs out for daily exercise is probably the best plan but I doubt many on here would agree
Sedona123 · 25/10/2020 17:56

@CrappleUmble

No, the people creating the rules are politicians. Epidemiologists have no power to make legislation.
The Epidemiologists advise the Politicians about what rules will limit the spread of the virus. Politicians aren't just inventing rules for the fun of it. This is why other countries have very similar rules to us.
Sedona123 · 25/10/2020 18:05

[quote SqidgeBum]@Sedona I am pretty sure no epidemiologist worth their salt would advise that 'the virus spreads when you see your mother for a cuppa, but doesnt spread you sit in a classroom with 30 sniffy children for 5 days a week'. That's government, not science. [/quote]
There are lots of rules that schools are following that people don't follow in their own homes. For example, children are regularly using anti bac gel, they're not hugging each other, they are all sitting facing forwards instead of facing each other, their food/drink is prepared by staff wearing visors or masks, they don't all use the same hand towel in the bathroom. I'm sure that there are way more rules in school than that, but it does somewhat show why kids at school won't be spreading the virus as much as people meeting up in their homes.

WhoLettheCatOut · 25/10/2020 18:19

I'm in tier 3 but will be mixing households regardless on Christmas day or boxing day. I've lost 3 family members during lockdown so I'm not cavalier about it generally but I'm not having what is possibly my last Christmas with family members separately. We will be a group of 7 people so even if medium risk will be breaking the rule. I adhered strictly during previous lock down but this time round I have joined a childcare bubble because I need some respite!