Christmas - following the rules or not?

[BIWitched]

From what we know right now (and accepting that things may change in the next few weeks) if you're in tier 2 or 3 re you going to obey the rules about not mixing households indoors?

YANBU - I will be ignoring the rules
YABU - it's my civic duty to obey the rules

I will be seeing my family that is all.

@Chaotic45

I'll be following the rules.

If everyone had done this from the start we wouldn't be we here we are now.

The only reason that the rules don't work is because people don't stick to them- for whatever reason they excuse their behaviour.

Each to their own but my clear conscience is valuable to my peace of mind.

All of this. We've recently gone into tier 2, and the amount of people we know who are ignoring all of the rules is shocking.

We're definitely planning to have Christmas Day as just us and DC. Both sides of our family are planning big (over rule of 6) Christmas Days, but we just can't see how that will work. For two weeks before that means no school, kids seeing their friends, adults shopping, no-one having a fever, cough, cold etc. That's without thinking about distancing/not all using the same bathroom and hand towels etc on the day.

Unless Covid miraculously disappears I really don't want to think about how awful the covid levels will be in January.

I and my siblings and her grandchildren, who she adored, missed half of the last year of my mums life. I really regret that now.

We thought we were doing the right thing but in retrospect she's died anyway and after a miserable last year. I wish I had respected the rules less and just given my mum more hugs.

And that's why I don't feel in t he mood to make the same mistake again with my dad.

So much hysteria about killing elderly relatives!
Would your relatives really rather live out their days in solitary confinement, possibly for the next 2, 3 or more years, than take the small risk of catching a virus that is unlikely to kill them?
And what do people think will happen if the whole country stays in tier 3 forever? It will just come back as soon as restrictions are relaxed. The only reason for these restrictions is to avoid overwhelming the NHS. It is not the aim to eradicate covid. Therefore most of us are going to get it sooner or later. Seeing family at Christmas will not, by itself, lead to the NHS being suddenly overwhelmed.

We thought we were doing the right thing but in retrospect she's died anyway and after a miserable last year. I wish I had respected the rules less and just given my mum more hugs.

Exactly. Each of us only gets one life and it is better to live in the moment, accepting that life is not without risk, than ruin life by fear of an unlikely event. The risk from covid is low even for the elderly. The average age at death from covid is 84. That's not to say an 84 year old doesn't matter, but it has to be put in perspective, against the huge losses to all of society that will follow if we have to live under these conditions for another year or more

I am a MASSIVE fan of Christmas. My family go mental for it from Halloween onwards. But I want them to be alive and well next year so no, we won't be meeting like usual. It's heartbreaking but It's just one day. And not nearly as heartbreaking as one of my family dying. Oh and it's my baby's first christmas!

We will be breaking the rules. We're having 6 people over from one household plus one person from a second household. We are a household of 4, so 11 of us.
I don't want to break the rules but don't have a choice. It's the in-laws coming over for my husbands birthday on Xmas eve.
I literally dont know how to stop this. I can't think of an alternative. I will be made to feel like poo for wanting to follow the rules.

I'm in rule of 6 area only

I'll be sticking to the rules and doing front garden visits to parents, in laws - if that. And I'm grateful for the 56% of people on this thread who will also follow the rules. To the 44% of exceptionalists, I hope you have a happy Christmas that's worth the risk of catching and spreading covid to you and your family members.

I don't want to break the rules but don't have a choice

You do have a choice.

Sadly, there is no-one left in mine and OH's parents generation so we don't have to worry about seeing older family. I just hope that DD will be allowed to come home from university. But that will still only make three of us. Our siblimgs live too far away for us to see them anyway.

AlwaysColdHands we are in the same boat. DH is working Xmas eve and day and I'm working new years eve and day. We have DS 4 and 6 and have alot of immediate family who we would normally meet up with. It's going to be sad but we just cant justify the risk (both acute healthcare).

It's a bit galling to see 44% are going to ignore the rules.

Clever use of the word ‘hysterics’ to suggest posters who follow the rules are unhinged somehow.

It's only my DD and me every Christmas now and that's exactly how we like it so no changes for us.

Which makes me very happy.

I will definitely not be sticking to the rules I shall still be seeing all my family and friends as I have done the whole way through, I think it's disgraceful that our way of life has been changed so drastically we need to learn to live with the virus instead of shutting everything down, any person could die tomorrow from something other than Covid. Life is meant to be lived,

We'll be sticking to the rules as I'd like us to come out of tier 3 sometime between now and March. Fully expect there to be a tier 4 created here the way we're going. I value normal life over just one day.

@feministicon what was that face for?

Following the rules. Why wouldn’t you?

in summary, it depends if you like yur relatives.
if you like them, and want them to be around in the future, stick to the rules.
if you want to get rid (with a sad face story in the daily mail “i didn’t know covid 19 was dangerous!”), go visit. Funerals and weddings have been very successful over the last months to reduce the number of older relatives, christmas is your next chance.
(yes, i’m being sarcastic, but it is true unfortunately)

Those of you who have said you will be ignoring the rules, I take it you won't be on here complaining about your DC's Education and Mental Health being impacted if their schools close due to a rise in positive cases in January?

This half term we have already had several members of staff and students from various year groups test positive. At least two schools locally have closed altogether on advice from PHE and we're in an area with relatively low cases compared to other parts of the country.

So when all your DC who've been mixing with Grandparents, Aunts and uncles, cousins who go to other schools, family friends etc etc because you decided your "need" for a big family Christmas trumped everything else, don't complain if they're only there for a week or two before it all goes to shit again.

I shall see what the rules are at the time to make my decision, since I haven't got DC under 18 or elderly relatives I shall make it based on that.

@screamingchild it is ridiculous to say you "don't have a choice", and "you don't know how to stop this" and most unbelievably that you "can't think of an alternative".

It's extremely simple to think of an alternative- alter you plans so that they fall within the rules. This will probably involve compromise and a few difficult decisions- which many of us accept as a given atm.

If you are going to blatantly make a plan that suits you without considering the rules then so be it- but at least own it along with the fact that you are firmly in the camp of those responsible for the rules not working.

They only don't work because people don't follow them.

Then, later in the year do not get on your high horse when people celebrate other the festivals like Eid without following the rules.

Do not complain when school bubbles burst or close. Do not complain when you can't visit elderly relatives in care, or dying relatives in hospital. Do not complain when you loose your job. Do not complain when the wait to see a specialist for a cancer scare is forever, or your operation gets cancelled, or there is no bed for your husband when he has a stroke or your kids when they are in a RTA. Just get on with life, hope these things happen to other people and not you- because only you matter.

Embrace the effects of the virus and keep your chin up like all the other people who are too selfish and shortsighted to think the rules apply to them.

@screamingchild

We will be breaking the rules. We're having 6 people over from one household plus one person from a second household. We are a household of 4, so 11 of us. I don't want to break the rules but don't have a choice. It's the in-laws coming over for my husbands birthday on Xmas eve. I literally dont know how to stop this. I can't think of an alternative. I will be made to feel like poo for wanting to follow the rules.

What a load of rubbish. Just because it's your husband's birthday on Christmas Eve it makes it ok to break the rules? Do what the majority of people have done all year for birthdays and have people at your doorstep/in the garden to fit in with the rules. Just yesterday I visited DH's sister for her birthday and we spent an hour in the garden. It's very doable! We've had several huge things to celebrate this year (bigger than birthdays) that we had planned parties/gatherings for but we stuck within the law and just celebrated at home, DH, DS and me with other relatives joining in via Zoom. Disappointing yes, but life lasts longer than one special day if you act to protect it.

You do have a choice, a very easy choice - live within the law or break it.
You do have an alternative - say no to people visiting and follow the law.

I really do despair.
Maybe next time you need us we should ask you if you followed the rules. No rules, no treatment, how about that for an autonomous, selfish decision. Maybe that question should be on our referrals.
In fact what a great idea. I’ll suggest it at our next Zoom meeting. Thanks everyone. We need to find ways to minimise wasted contacts.

[quote Chaotic45]@screamingchild it is ridiculous to say you "don't have a choice", and "you don't know how to stop this" and most unbelievably that you "can't think of an alternative".

It's extremely simple to think of an alternative- alter you plans so that they fall within the rules. This will probably involve compromise and a few difficult decisions- which many of us accept as a given atm.

If you are going to blatantly make a plan that suits you without considering the rules then so be it- but at least own it along with the fact that you are firmly in the camp of those responsible for the rules not working.

They only don't work because people don't follow them.

Then, later in the year do not get on your high horse when people celebrate other the festivals like Eid without following the rules.

Do not complain when school bubbles burst or close. Do not complain when you can't visit elderly relatives in care, or dying relatives in hospital. Do not complain when you loose your job. Do not complain when the wait to see a specialist for a cancer scare is forever, or your operation gets cancelled, or there is no bed for your husband when he has a stroke or your kids when they are in a RTA. Just get on with life, hope these things happen to other people and not you- because only you matter.

Embrace the effects of the virus and keep your chin up like all the other people who are too selfish and shortsighted to think the rules apply to them.

[/quote]
I think o posted on here to gain strength from people posting back. I have a very strong willed husband and equally strong willed MIL. I hate breaking the rules. I have a lot of anxiety over it and spent the whole summer following the lockdown rules. I'm going to use the view points on here to help formulate the conversation I need to have with my husband and therefore my in-laws. They honestly think they don't have to follow the rules because they are a household of 6. I will be the bad guy for suggesting any change to plans.

Do not complain when school bubbles burst or close. Do not complain when you can't visit elderly relatives in care, or dying relatives in hospital. Do not complain when you loose your job. Do not complain when the wait to see a specialist for a cancer scare is forever, or your operation gets cancelled, or there is no bed for your husband when he has a stroke or your kids when they are in a RTA. Just get on with life, hope these things happen to other people and not you- because only you matter.

All of this is already happening, which I think is why so many people increasingly feel less inclined to follow “the rules”. The solution, as shown in all the countries that have returned to anything close to normal pending any possible vaccine, is effective track and trace and the government has shown absolutely zero inclination to get that up and running.