Christmas - following the rules or not?

[BIWitched]

From what we know right now (and accepting that things may change in the next few weeks) if you're in tier 2 or 3 re you going to obey the rules about not mixing households indoors?

YANBU - I will be ignoring the rules
YABU - it's my civic duty to obey the rules

[OverTheRainbow88]

Impossible to answer as we don’t know what the rules will be.

No house hold mixing... I will stick to

Rule of 6... probably won’t as we are usually 10 so who would be axed?

[etopp]

It isn't impossible to answer, because whatever stupid decree they come up with, I'm not doing it.

I normally spend Christmas with my DC and nobody else, but this is the one year I would accept an invitation. Just because I'm so fed up with stupid and arbitrary rules.

[DdraigGoch]

[quote Chaotic45]@DdraigGoch I'm not sure if you're saying that you see the rules as being in place in order to keep schools open?

I guess that's partly true- in that closing schools is one thing that the government are trying to avoid. Although it seems that they really are trying to keep them open regardless of infection rates.

Surely though we are trying to keep infection rates down for a while gust of other reasons? Like the availability a hospital bed or appointment available should you one need it.

Or the major one surely- to avoid vulnerable people catching and dying from Covid! [/quote]
No, I'm saying that as schools are a potential breeding ground for viruses (but must remain open for the good of the country). Therefore if people have no contact with said breeding grounds (and don't work in any other high-risk environments) then it shouldn't be impossible to let them spend Christmas with a select group of people. It may do something to mitigate the mental health crisis which will be even worse this year than most January's.

[CrappleUmble]

The Epidemiologists advise the Politicians about what rules will limit the spread of the virus. Politicians aren't just inventing rules for the fun of it. This is why other countries have very similar rules to us.

Epidemiologists do advise, yes, but that certainly doesn't mean that every regulation that's been made has been on the recommendation of even one epidemiologist, let alone multiple ones. For example, do you reckon it was an epidemiologist who came up with Eat Out To Help Out?

[IrkedEssex]

Our plans would be scuppered under current rules as we are in Tier 2. Relatives are in Tier 1. If we go back into Tier 1 and they stay in Tier 1 and the rule of 6 applies then we can sort of make it work by seeing two lots of relatives separately, though even then we would have to pretend it's a rule of 7. Which I would not have agreed to at the start of all this but now I am beginning to think differently.

[BreconBeelzeBubbered]

DS1 hasn't been home since last Christmas. I'd love to have him and his GF to stay, but naturally the GF's family would like the same thing, so splitting the time between two homes in different parts of the country is stretching the concept of the rule of six, even if there'd be fewer than 6 in each household. Point of origin and both parental homes are currently in Tier 1, so there are currently no restrictions on movement, though of course booking travel in advance is bound to bloody jinx it.
Fucked if I know, honestly. We've been playing it very safe so far and I'm dying to spend time with different people. On balance, though, I think we're most likely to keep playing it safe.

[MercyBooth]

Lakeside are doing Skate out to Help Out.

[Ginfordinner]

Rule of 6... probably won’t as we are usually 10 so who would be axed?

Anyone who isn't part of your household?
Except for last year we are usually three, and hopefully it will be three this year isf DD can come home from university.

[Sedona123]

@CrappleUmble

The Epidemiologists advise the Politicians about what rules will limit the spread of the virus. Politicians aren't just inventing rules for the fun of it. This is why other countries have very similar rules to us.

Epidemiologists do advise, yes, but that certainly doesn't mean that every regulation that's been made has been on the recommendation of even one epidemiologist, let alone multiple ones. For example, do you reckon it was an epidemiologist who came up with Eat Out To Help Out?

Not totally, but the Epidemiologists would have insisted on the rules which were put in place such as distancing tables, limiting numbers at tables, table service only (no queuing at the bar), visors for serving staff/chefs etc, etc. Restaurants and pubs weren't just opened as they had been before covid. The Eat Out to Help Out idea was a good at the time as covid levels were very low, and the economy had totally stalled. The rules/restrictions change as the covid levels change.

[CrappleUmble]

You don't know what the epidemiologists had to say about it, though. You're assuming. How do you know epidemiologist opinion wasn't against the scheme altogether? Or to take a more current example, SAGE now favour a national lockdown over the tiers system, but that's not what we've got.

[ChalkDinosaur]

I'll follow the rules. If someone was really lonely and suffering then I'd understand breaking/bending them but just wanting a normal Christmas isn't a good enough reason imo.

[Umbridge34]

visors for serving staff/chefs etc, etc

I doubt any epidemiologist has advised visors alone. They stop physical droplets touching your face but are pointless for aerosolised virus.

Visors are one of those things that fit the definition of face covering but are paying lip service to safety. I believe they are not allowed to be worn alone in Scotland?

[MiddleClassMother]

Absolutely not, I miss my family enough. I'll be visiting them lockdown or not. Hopefully the motorway will be clearer.

[CrappleUmble]

@Umbridge34

visors for serving staff/chefs etc, etc

I doubt any epidemiologist has advised visors alone. They stop physical droplets touching your face but are pointless for aerosolised virus.

Visors are one of those things that fit the definition of face covering but are paying lip service to safety. I believe they are not allowed to be worn alone in Scotland?

That's what I'd heard too, although I haven't looked into it as I thought getting a mask was easier.

[Chaotic45]

This thread has proved to me that we are pretty much doomed in terms of measures to stop this virus which spreads via human contact.

The only way to stop it other than a vaccine is to limit human contact.

Too many people won't do it though.

It's incredibly sad, and people will look at this period of history and see what a selfish society can do to itself.

I will be sticking to the rules, because it's important to be to have a clear conscience.

I'm stepping away from this thread now, it's too full of people whose fault it is that the virus is spreading and will continue to do so.

[Ginfordinner]

I'm with you @Chaotic45.
Although it is easy for me to say as we don't have any family nearby so we don't usually see them at Christmas anyway.

[tallbirduk]

We are expecting to have our first ever Christmas with just the 4 of us, because we don’t want to inflict the germ ridden children on anyone.

Perhaps it’s because we will follow the rules - and perhaps take it even further and not see people inside even if we are allowed because we deem the risk to be too high - but I can’t see how I would enjoy having a big gathering knowing a) it’s illegal and b) it could be harmful.

[mrsmrt1981]

Me, husband, the dog and our cats is all I need 👍🏻🙂

[MissMarplesGlove]

this thread now, it's too full of people whose fault it is that the virus is spreading and will continue to do so

Im with you @Chaotic45 and @Ginfordinner I’m finding this thread both sad and shocking - the selfishness and the lack of understanding that we all need to take responsibility for each other. From people claiming how their family is more important than everybody else’s.

[Washimal]

Hopefully the motorway will be clearer.

Not if this thread is anything to go by!

[Belladonna12]

I would take what people say about Christmas with a bit of a pinch of salt as they don't know what the rules will be and they don't know what the situation be with regard to deaths. People may take things more seriously if thousands of people are dying every day for example. On the other hand cases may have gone down again and it could be more like last August.

Maybe it's my age but most of my friends are quite happy with the idea of not having to host Christmas events so there could be less "rule breaking" than people think. My parents are older and my children are at school/university so there is no way we will all be mixing unless things are very different. The rules are irrelevant to me in this respect.

[froggygoneonakillingspree]

I’ve had an idea - why not make it a simple choice? Either your child can go to school or you can have as many people as you like round at Christmas. The fact that you can only have one of these options will in itself reduce transmission.

What a wonderful idea!

It's despicable that people who live alone are banned from visiting or being visited indoors by even one single other person (unless they are able to form a bubble) when shops, tubes and areas outside pubs are such a mob scene.

Two people sitting 2m apart inside a living room is clearly a lower transmission risk than a ton of things that are permissible.

froggygoneonakillingspree that would be classed as providing support to a vulnerable person which is allowed under all tier rules. I would do it anyway but you are not breaking any rules or guidelines in doing it.
That's true, thank you. Though I have to admit I'd do it anyway, even if my best friend wasn't in acute crisis.

[sqirrelfriends]

Yes, but I understand why some people don't, especially if you see them anyway or there is a danger of someone spending it alone.

I think there will be a huge fallout of loads of people think "fuck it" and have huge gatherings. I would love to, but it's massively irresponsible.

[Feministicon]

Are most people who are breaking the rules having 7 people get together instead of the requisite 6 or are they having 17 😂

[MissMarplesGlove]

I would love to, but it's massively irresponsible.

And there you have it:
a grow up responsible attitude.

VS

the disrespectful fuck it, I'll do what I want attitude. Which is so selfish & irresponsible.