To find this definition of working class offensive?

[popcorndreams]

I work in the creative sector which is not very diverse and I feel has a particular issue with class diversity. I've come across something in application info, saying they are looking for applications from people who are from working class backgrounds and I'm really not sure on their definition.

I'm not sure what I'd say my class background it. My grandad was a miner and grandma a cleaner. One of my parents was in a skilled manual job before training to become a teacher, in the time before you had to have a degree. My mam left school at 16 and has worked her way up in scientific research. So my parents are probably from working class homes and did more middle class jobs but I wouldn't think of them as middle class. Certainly not in terms of anything other than work and that is not derogatory. I would probably have said my background was working class. I was first in my family to go to uni.

Anyway so this description: If you are from a working class or lower socio-economic background, you will most likely have been to state school, might have received free school meals as a child, or had a precarious household income when you were growing up. You might have grown up in the care system, been a young carer, or been the first in your family to go to university. If you are from a working class background you are more likely to face intersecting barriers in society, experiencing racism, ableism and other forms of discrimination.

I find this a bit offensive as I'd say this isn't working class, it's a deprived background. Th majority of working class people do not have children in care. Growing up may people were not on very high incomes but they were still fairly steady does this make you not working class? I know it's not saying all of these things are needed to be from a working class background but I think its not actually a description of a working class background.

I'm struggling to see what part of it is offensive to be honest, however others might see it from a different perspective or have a sense of what kind of language could be used instead

I agree with you. That description is shit.

It's not offensive? It's accurate. Says someone else from a working-class and low-income background. You have to be in denial to think coming from a low-income backtround you have equal opportunities to someone who, for example, was privately educated.

The sector I work in is also not diverse as it relies on unpaid internships to get into it... in London... so unsurprisingly it's full of people whose parents could support them to work and live in London for no pay. Some bigger organisation are including socio-economic background as a diversity criteria and I think it's great.

It's weird because it kind of scans both definitions 'either side' of working class, e.g. some of the things I agree sound like deprivation, rather than 'normal working class' but the mention of 'going to state school' - well that's 93% of the population, up to many upper middle class kids.

Also depending on how old you are you could have been quite well off and still been the first person in your family to go to university - up until the 80s only between 5-19% of school leavers went. I went in 2006 and there were loads of people in my school who were first generation - most of our parents did fairly middle class jobs, but not ones you would have needed a degree for back in the 70s when they started working, and had worked their way up since to middle/senior management/creative roles etc.

Also it does explicitly say "If you are from a working class or lower socio-economic background"

I'm fully aware you don't have the same opportunities if working class. I find it offensive because it's describing in lots of ways a quite deprived background. Working class doesn't equal deprived or disadvantaged in the way they are describing. I think it makes working class seem shitter to experience than it is.

I by no means think it's great and I definitely had less opportunities than more muddle class people I know. But also I'm not comfortable with equating working class with the deprivation they mention.

@ErickBroch

It's not offensive? It's accurate. Says someone else from a working-class and low-income background. You have to be in denial to think coming from a low-income backtround you have equal opportunities to someone who, for example, was privately educated.

The sector I work in is also not diverse as it relies on unpaid internships to get into it... in London... so unsurprisingly it's full of people whose parents could support them to work and live in London for no pay. Some bigger organisation are including socio-economic background as a diversity criteria and I think it's great.

Yes this is the same for arts and culture regarding the internships. It's a fairly new thing to include socio economic background as a factor. I'm massively for it. That's not my argument. I just feel this is an insensitive description of working class.

It is certainly not offensive even if you don’t agree with it. But considering it uses the word “might” a few times it seems like a reasonable definition to me.

You do fit that profile OP. It doesn't say you have to have experienced all those things. It says you probably went to state school (this is 93% of people). It says you might have been the first in your family to go to university (this is 50% of all graduates born in 1990). Those are broad categories. Then they describe some less common, but definitely lower socio-economic experiences, like being on free school meals (less than 15% of children).

Do you think maybe you're letting your pride cloud your judgement?

I've read through the description a few times. I'm working class and, while someone of it isn't nice to read, it's not that offensive to me. They list things that might be applicable if you are wc, not that all things listed will apply.

As a fellow working class person that doesn’t sit right here either. Sounds more as though they mean non-working families.

I was the first to go to university in my family and the first to own a house. My mum is a cleaner and my dad grew up in real grinding poverty before joining the army. We say we were poor but proud.

I just feel like it is equating poverty and working class as the same thing. So that the offensive bit. I do understand that not all of it applies.

Perhaps you were insulated from some of the possible economic hardships of being working class due to your parents having middle class jobs as you put it?

I grew up with parents with working class jobs and remember not being able to go shopping because the car needed repair for example, and had free school meals for a while. We weren’t anything close to grinding poverty but the insecurity of income is something I remember very well.

I was the first (and only member) of my family to go to university and my children have opportunities I didn’t get. They don’t live in cold house for a start!

@WoobyWoo
As a fellow working class person that doesn’t sit right here either. Sounds more as though they mean non-working families

Yes. That kind of what I mean.

I saw this recently too in an application for a job I applied for - was it for a publishing house by any chance?

I'm working class and I get where you are coming from to be honest.

I never got free school meals. They're for families on benefits or only work a few hours a week, not families who work full time which mine did. Everyone in my family worked and owned their own homes. There's a difference between working class and living in poverty.

How are they going to asses whether an applicant is working class or not. Do they want you to put that you had free school meals on your CV?

Far more likely they will assess at interview based on accent, dress and a million other class signifiers which could be accurate or not.

Maybe you’ll be asked on the application which social class you identify as!

@Nutmegpapaya

I saw this recently too in an application for a job I applied for - was it for a publishing house by any chance?

No it's not for a publishing house. But I think many organisations borrow wording from others!

It's actually bot a big deal to me I was just sense checking it.(please don't throw things!) I dele very anxious about putting myself out there with applications. So it just caught my attention is all. Interesting thoughts on both sides.

Yes, that’s bad. Although those things probably are more prevalent in working class families, it wouldn’t be okay to write, “If you are upper class, your family may conceal low-level alcoholism behind a civilised facade, and you may have been horribly bullied at public school but it is very unlikely your parents cared.” Dysfunctionality isn’t a feature of any particular class.

Growing up in care is not a characteristic of a working-class background. It's a characteristic of a horrendously traumatic childhood.

I have seen another organisation ask about education ie state vs fee paying. But then they ask about if you got your fees paid mainly by scholarship or something like that. I think that's a good one re class. But I think it's one of the hardest things to assess so lots of places don't bother. So in that sense at least they're trying to address it.

Feel like I'm not up to parr for AIBU as I need to feel instantly one way or the other. There's not normally room for nuance here!

I’m from a working class background and I totally agree, lived in a deprived area, but most kids at my school did not receive free schools or were in care etc. Vast majority of my friends had parents both working and were not living on the breadline. It sounds like this definition was written by someone middle to upper class who thinks working class is poverty and crime.

I'm not offended - I had free school meals and was the first in my family to go to university.
Someone else might never have had free school meals but might identify with the precarious income bit because their parents were self-employed. Otoh my parents got disability benefits and they were very stable back in the 90s.

But then they ask about if you got your fees paid mainly by scholarship or something like that. I think that's a good one re class

Most scholarships are taken up by middle class children.