To find this definition of working class offensive?

[popcorndreams]

I work in the creative sector which is not very diverse and I feel has a particular issue with class diversity. I've come across something in application info, saying they are looking for applications from people who are from working class backgrounds and I'm really not sure on their definition.

I'm not sure what I'd say my class background it. My grandad was a miner and grandma a cleaner. One of my parents was in a skilled manual job before training to become a teacher, in the time before you had to have a degree. My mam left school at 16 and has worked her way up in scientific research. So my parents are probably from working class homes and did more middle class jobs but I wouldn't think of them as middle class. Certainly not in terms of anything other than work and that is not derogatory. I would probably have said my background was working class. I was first in my family to go to uni.

Anyway so this description: If you are from a working class or lower socio-economic background, you will most likely have been to state school, might have received free school meals as a child, or had a precarious household income when you were growing up. You might have grown up in the care system, been a young carer, or been the first in your family to go to university. If you are from a working class background you are more likely to face intersecting barriers in society, experiencing racism, ableism and other forms of discrimination.

I find this a bit offensive as I'd say this isn't working class, it's a deprived background. Th majority of working class people do not have children in care. Growing up may people were not on very high incomes but they were still fairly steady does this make you not working class? I know it's not saying all of these things are needed to be from a working class background but I think its not actually a description of a working class background.

I've always thought of myself as working class. Went to state school, received free school meals, parents would have struggled to pay for school trips as precarious income/benefit issues, first in family to go to uni. Born in 1990.

I agree with you too OP.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the definition, it's accurate from my personal experience

You're not working class OP so you ABU be offended. But according to that definition you fit the diversity bill, I'm not sure what your issue is.

* ....or been the first in your family to go to university.*

Ideasplease you're not working class

If you had a private tutor you're not bloody working class...

@Winebottle

Obviously some people look down on certain accents, some people look down on less educated people and some people look down on poor people. It's just the concept of using those attributes to categorise people into distinct class I don't understand.

I don't see the "working class" category as relevant today, it is based on the social and economic conditions of when Marx was writing.

Marx doesn't really talk about class with the categories being used here. His categories are describing the relations of different parts of society.

The main ones being the people who own businesses, factories, apartment buildings, land etc, and the people who don't own anything like that and sell their labour to the first group.

That's still a pretty important distinction.

@jcyclops

I prefer the marxist definitions of class.

Working class means you earn by selling your labour (or receive benefits because you can't). Working class includes blue collar, white collar, grey collar and pink collar workers, so it covers from cleaners and labourers to professionals such as accountants, lawyers, doctors, architects (but excludes partners in these professions). Many think these professionals are middle class, but they are really white collar upper working class.

You are not working class if you earn primarily through the efforts of people you employ and pay. Small business owners who employ others are still working class if they must work in the business to have sufficient income. You are not working class if you earn through ownership of money making assets, or don't earn because you are wealthy enough not to need to.

If your parents are working class or upper class, then you are the same whilst you are dependent on them, but you define your own class when you strike out on your own.

What I would say about this is that while I agree with your sentiment generally, the people that we typically call middle class are somewhat different from those who only sell their labour because of things like investments and pension schemes and such. Which makes them, in a certain sense, owners. For some it doesn't amount to enough to make much difference but in others it does, and it gives them an interest in how well the capitalist class is doing, and an advantage over those without similar resources.

I think they have wanted to widen recruitment to working class and also deprived backgrounds. Hence the rather clumsy inclusion of what I too found surprising references.
The words ‘might have’ are their attempt to soften this

I hate the class system. I dislike being defined. I came from a family where my fathers parents were wealthy because of my grandfathers profession but working class down to their roots. Despite this my dad went to private school.
My mothers family were middle class and had a maid. She and her sisters were all privately educated.
My parents were poor. We had nothing, but because of the families we were defined as not working class. We should have had free school meals but my mother was too proud.
We lived a horrible lie. All my friends thought were were well off but my parents were in debt and the bailiffs came round all the time. They even knew my name.
Christmas presents and holidays came from grandparents or we would have had nothing and still we lived this lie.
We lived in a council house and my mother was selective with who she spoke to on the street. She thought she was 'above' other people but my shoes still had holes in and I had to wear my school uniform to church as I had nothing else unless my grandmother made me a dress.

I am working class because I have worked all my life.

If you had a private tutor you're not bloody working class...

That’s not the case at all. It’s not just about available money.

I don't think there is a working class nowadays - as an older poster I would say that it used to mean people who were not professionals. Miners, car repair, plumber, factory worker - people with jobs that didn't require further education (though often an apprenticeship). But now many of the jobs are self employed so plumbers have a business, garage worker owns his garage and business so aren't the same as before. There are few physical jobs nowadays like bin men which would be working class.
So they make up this role which just means poorly paid with few opportunities. But lump it in with working class.

But now many of the jobs are self employed so plumbers have a business, garage worker owns his garage and business so aren't the same as before.

The longstanding distinction between working and middle class isn’t ‘owning’ your business. It is being a member of the group that can (generally) afford to employ others to do the work instead of them. A plumber owns their business but they do their own physical work. A factory owner owns their business but their profits come from someone else’s physical work.

If you had a private tutor you're not bloody working class...

Plenty of immigrant families will sacrifice other stuff for the DCs education, mine did (and the man did us an extra cheap rate as my parents couldn't have afforded his normal fees).

Plenty of immigrant families will sacrifice other stuff for the DCs education,

As will plenty of non-immigrant families.

yes, of course

I think they'd have been better leaving out the term working-class and just sticking with 'from a lower socio-economic background'.

This made me think of my amusement but also horror when I went to the Labour society at university and found it absolutely full of people insisting they were working-class because their grandfather had worked in a factory and they went to state school (in the leafiest part of Surrey, or at a London super-selective). These schemes didn't exist then but if they did I think a lot of them would have self-identified into working class when applying for graduate jobs, which might have done a lot to make the numbers look better but done nothing for actual diversity.

It reminds me a bit of the post 'Nice White Parents' - if you want to actually improve things for groups at a disadvantage you have to really outline that it isn't for the already advantaged because otherwise they'll feel entitled to it anyway.

This made me think of my amusement but also horror when I went to the Labour society at university and found it absolutely full of people insisting they were working-class because their grandfather had worked in a factory and they went to state school (in the leafiest part of Surrey, or at a London super-selective).

I went to uni with someone who grew up in a very fancy London townhouse, who went to one of the most expensive day schools in London, who smoked cigars, and thought they were working class because they went to a state primary.

Lots of people are saying YABU OP, but even if that definition is right I wonder if it will have the effect the organisation wants if the way it's written could actually put off some working class people from applying because they think the organisation will be full of MC types who don't have a clue what a working class background is.

you want to actually improve things for groups at a disadvantage you have to really outline that it isn't for the already advantaged because otherwise they'll feel entitled to it anyway.

I actually think jobs and internships should be open to all. Lowering barriers to entry is the answer, not closing shop. So, if offering an internship, make sure it is well paid, provide accommodation if you possibly can, select for interview based on anonymous CVs, consciously include people who have done a couple of ‘filler’ jobs after university, or those who have graduated from part-time courses, mature students etc.

It was definitely a 'thing' that is was considered cooler, in certain circles, to claim to be working class than to be boringly middle class. When I saw Fresh Meat the Oregon character made me cringe with recognition...

I also technically fall within that definition - first to university, went to state school (though, again, once of the top-performing grammars in the country) - and would never define myself as working class. My parents grew up working class but had middle class lives as adults, I grew up and am still middle class.

OP you sound about as working class as I am. Which is to say, not at all. We are not our grandparents.

I agree with you OP.

I’ve only read some o the responses but personally I find it offensive. I’m from a much less divided country and it is very obvious on MN how WC is vilified and often used as a derogatory term.

It should be split into two boxes, one for working class and one for coming from a deprived background.

@Jericoo

Ideasplease you're not working class

Why not? My parents were not in high paying jobs - they worked hard and sacrificed for us. They were never unemployed, and they owned their house, but I know some months were a struggle. We had second hand bikes for Christmas for example.

Neither Parent went to university. My dad was a shift worker and my mum was a secretary. We grew up in a very modest terrace house.

Working class often own their own home and have financial security. I think you are confusing working class with under class - horrible phrase, but here you will find people who experience repeated or constant unemployment and therefore fall into reliance on benefits.