To find this definition of working class offensive?

[popcorndreams]

I work in the creative sector which is not very diverse and I feel has a particular issue with class diversity. I've come across something in application info, saying they are looking for applications from people who are from working class backgrounds and I'm really not sure on their definition.

I'm not sure what I'd say my class background it. My grandad was a miner and grandma a cleaner. One of my parents was in a skilled manual job before training to become a teacher, in the time before you had to have a degree. My mam left school at 16 and has worked her way up in scientific research. So my parents are probably from working class homes and did more middle class jobs but I wouldn't think of them as middle class. Certainly not in terms of anything other than work and that is not derogatory. I would probably have said my background was working class. I was first in my family to go to uni.

Anyway so this description: If you are from a working class or lower socio-economic background, you will most likely have been to state school, might have received free school meals as a child, or had a precarious household income when you were growing up. You might have grown up in the care system, been a young carer, or been the first in your family to go to university. If you are from a working class background you are more likely to face intersecting barriers in society, experiencing racism, ableism and other forms of discrimination.

I find this a bit offensive as I'd say this isn't working class, it's a deprived background. Th majority of working class people do not have children in care. Growing up may people were not on very high incomes but they were still fairly steady does this make you not working class? I know it's not saying all of these things are needed to be from a working class background but I think its not actually a description of a working class background.

As somebody who would absolutely fall within their inoffensive and accurate description of the people they wish to encourage applications from, your childhood lifestyle sounds pretty middleclass to me.

I agree OP. They’re conflating a whole load of things (care, free school meals) under this particular class label that are not signifiers for ‘being working class’ at all. I went to a mostly working class primary school, for example, and it was a very small minority indeed who got free school meals. Kids in state care was also very much the exception... as you’d expect! It’s patronising and ignorant.

I think we likely work in the same area as I got the same application form today!

I agree it's a bit shit, but our industry has been struggling so much to figure out how to address and ask these questions. One big thing that's come out of the debate is the idea that anyone who's not posh/privileged gets chucked into one big box, when actually there's a ton of differences between say a a refugee or someone who grew up in care and a person from a financially comfortable background with parents who happened to do 'traditional' working class jobs.

I've been involved with the work a couple of organisations who are doing work in this area. It's important to come up with some way of monitoring "diversity" to see where organisations are failing and to ensure that things like funding reaches the right people. But unlike race or sexual orientation, class is so much more complex. Some organisations just flat out say "here's a blank box, tell us how you self-identify your class background." Others have or are trying to figure out more concrete questions to ask. For example the question about schools is near universal now, and that's because even though the majority of Brits (many of them middle class) go to state schools, state school-educated people are so vastly under-represented in the arts world.

Something that various organisations have been doing is trying to come up with a new acronym similar to LGBTQ, to acknowledge that not everyone who's socioeconomically deprived considers themselves working class, and not everyone working class is socioeconomically deprived (though they are less likely to have had the same opportunities as people from more middle class backgrounds). The acronym which is becoming popularised is WBCU-C which stands for Working, Benefits, Criminal and Underclass. It's not perfect by any means and many people have objected to the inclusion of Criminal Class especially in how it pertains to E&DM forms. But it is at least an attempt to not just lump everyone who isn't posh under the same umbrella.

If you are from a working class or lower socio-economic background

That was meant to point out that they say

If you are from a working class or lower socio-economic background

@MitziK

As somebody who would absolutely fall within their inoffensive and accurate description of the people they wish to encourage applications from, your childhood lifestyle sounds pretty middleclass to me.

Ok so from income (bearing in mind you don't actually know what it is) class is about so much more than money. The only thing you know about my upbringing is my parents jobs for some of my childhood. It's unfortunate that we can't talk about class with people using it as a weapon like you are. As some pp's have agreed with me I in think some of what is discribed here is actually deprivation. So I'm sorry if you had any difficult experiences growing up.

The acronym which is becoming popularised is WBCU-C which stands for Working, Benefits, Criminal and Underclass.

If anyone tries that on me they’re going to feel the sharp end of my tongue.

@froggygoneonakillingspree

“Working, Benefits, Criminal and Underclass”

Fucking hell!

@froggygoneonakillingspree I work in the North East. This is for an artist creative practitioner role with a culture organisation.

I understand everything you're saying about lumping in together. That acronym is horrific though. The use of underclass! Wow. Maybe workless or non working? Also having worked with offenders many people are circumstantial offenders rather than career criminals. Nice to come across a fellow arts sector worker!

If it’s meant to be some sort of self-identification BS, it’s very flawed. Who identifies themselves as a criminal? Or a member of the “underclass”, whatever that is? Is this a Dickens novel?

@froggygoneonakillingspree

I think we likely work in the same area as I got the same application form today!

I agree it's a bit shit, but our industry has been struggling so much to figure out how to address and ask these questions. One big thing that's come out of the debate is the idea that anyone who's not posh/privileged gets chucked into one big box, when actually there's a ton of differences between say a a refugee or someone who grew up in care and a person from a financially comfortable background with parents who happened to do 'traditional' working class jobs.

I've been involved with the work a couple of organisations who are doing work in this area. It's important to come up with some way of monitoring "diversity" to see where organisations are failing and to ensure that things like funding reaches the right people. But unlike race or sexual orientation, class is so much more complex. Some organisations just flat out say "here's a blank box, tell us how you self-identify your class background." Others have or are trying to figure out more concrete questions to ask. For example the question about schools is near universal now, and that's because even though the majority of Brits (many of them middle class) go to state schools, state school-educated people are so vastly under-represented in the arts world.

Something that various organisations have been doing is trying to come up with a new acronym similar to LGBTQ, to acknowledge that not everyone who's socioeconomically deprived considers themselves working class, and not everyone working class is socioeconomically deprived (though they are less likely to have had the same opportunities as people from more middle class backgrounds). The acronym which is becoming popularised is WBCU-C which stands for Working, Benefits, Criminal and Underclass. It's not perfect by any means and many people have objected to the inclusion of Criminal Class especially in how it pertains to E&DM forms. But it is at least an attempt to not just lump everyone who isn't posh under the same umbrella.

God, this sounds awful.

Why not, instead of all of this identification business, figure out why they aren't getting much class diversity?

Chances are there are two types of reasons. One is there are practical barriers to entering, like crappy pay, or the need for higher education, or perhaps the location of the work. Then they could possibly address those things. Or they might not be able to address them in which case they need to think about supporting higher level initiatives.

The other possibility is that there is a cultural reason that people from those backgrounds are not drawn to that work. Possibly it is lack of awareness which maybe could be addressed. Or maybe it is something to do with cultural values that they won't be able to do much about.

Ok so from income (bearing in mind you don't actually know what it is) class is about so much more than money. The only thing you know about my upbringing is my parents jobs for some of my childhood. It's unfortunate that we can't talk about class with people using it as a weapon like you are.

You said what your parents did for a living. Those are both middle class jobs, not working lass ones. They may have maintained the values and the tastes of the working classes, but they were likely part of the big shift from the working to middle classes.

|The acronym which is becoming popularised is WBCU-C which stands for Working, Benefits, Criminal and Underclass.

Now that's the most offensive thing I've seen yet! I'm glad to say I've never seen it.

: If you are from a working class or lower socio-economic background, you will most likely have been to state school, might have received free school meals as a child, or had a precarious household income when you were growing up. You might have grown up in the care system, been a young carer, or been the first in your family to go to university. If you are from a working class background you are more likely to face intersecting barriers in society, experiencing racism, ableism and other forms of discrimination.

I was never in care but all the other descriptions apply to my childhood. I class myself as from a working class background. OPs personal background sounds more middle class.

OPs personal background sounds more middle class.

I think she’s clearly working class. Just secure employment working class, rather than the precariat. Class according to the traditional UK definition is cultural and occupational. If your parents aren’t ‘middle class’ you aren’t, and so on, regardless of what you actually do.

I've never understood class. I apparently came from a middle class background but I also tick a lot of the boxes in that description (state school, free school meals, precarious income, first to go to uni, young carer) since our circumstances changed quite a bit while I was growing up.

Putting people in boxes is a weird thing to do.

It's unfortunate that we can't talk about class with people using it as a weapon like you are

Now you're being silly and reading things into my post that weren't there.

Your parents were fortunate enough to be able to earn/gain some upward social mobility, which you have undoubtedly benefitted from.

From my point of view as somebody who did fall into exactly the categories they are trying to explain without specifying 'we want applications from people from socioeconomic groups D and E, those who have been described in various studies as The Underclass', you had a middleclass upbringing with the income, attitudes and inherent advantages that brings you.

Which is good for you, no kid deserves the shit of life on the outskirts of society. But there's no point being offended that you had a better life than the people they are actively trying to encourage applications from and they're using the term which you prefer to use for yourself to mean people worse off than you were.

@flaviaritt Well then do you agree with her that the description given equals a deprived childhood? If so deprivation is absolutely, shockingly rife in this country!

Zquidink

The emphasis is certainly on trauma/deprivation, but the ‘label’ used is working class, yes.

These are just standard widening access criteria, as used by places like universities in contextual admissions. They don’t usually use the term working class though, something like ‘non-traditional background’ would possibly be used instead.

something like ‘non-traditional background’ would possibly be used instead.

What is non-traditional about the working classes?

As to Lawyers and others who are comfortable or well educated claiming a working class identity (perhaps even the op or myself fall into this catagory), is it not a question of solidarity with the background and the people you come from? Many people wilk try to distence themselves from a poor background (I've seen thus happen many times) but some will retain a sense of loyalty to their working clasd roots and it will inform their politics.

"Rise with your class, not out of it" John McLean.

Putting people in boxes is a weird thing to do

It is, but if it's beneficial to people as in this case, then why not. It's impossible to fully define a class, and how people think of themselves might differ from what society considers x, y or z, but if an employer has ended up with 99% of its staff as red brick graduates from private school, why not widen accessibility? Sure, if they're the best for the job then of course they should get it, but if there are barriers then it's good they're attempting to address it. The ideal is that those barriers wouldn't exist I guess, but until then ignoring the differences doesn't really help.

As to Lawyers and others who are comfortable or well educated claiming a working class identity (perhaps even the op or myself fall into this catagory), is it not a question of solidarity with the background and the people you come from?

For me it’s just a question of fact. I don’t claim any ‘identity’, I just am from a particular background.