To find this definition of working class offensive?

[popcorndreams]

I work in the creative sector which is not very diverse and I feel has a particular issue with class diversity. I've come across something in application info, saying they are looking for applications from people who are from working class backgrounds and I'm really not sure on their definition.

I'm not sure what I'd say my class background it. My grandad was a miner and grandma a cleaner. One of my parents was in a skilled manual job before training to become a teacher, in the time before you had to have a degree. My mam left school at 16 and has worked her way up in scientific research. So my parents are probably from working class homes and did more middle class jobs but I wouldn't think of them as middle class. Certainly not in terms of anything other than work and that is not derogatory. I would probably have said my background was working class. I was first in my family to go to uni.

Anyway so this description: If you are from a working class or lower socio-economic background, you will most likely have been to state school, might have received free school meals as a child, or had a precarious household income when you were growing up. You might have grown up in the care system, been a young carer, or been the first in your family to go to university. If you are from a working class background you are more likely to face intersecting barriers in society, experiencing racism, ableism and other forms of discrimination.

I find this a bit offensive as I'd say this isn't working class, it's a deprived background. Th majority of working class people do not have children in care. Growing up may people were not on very high incomes but they were still fairly steady does this make you not working class? I know it's not saying all of these things are needed to be from a working class background but I think its not actually a description of a working class background.

That sounds more like "underclass" to me. I grew up in a thoroughly working class home in the '80s, as did my friends. We had nice homes, parents working in stable jobs, no free school meals, holidays, toys, no deprivation or chaotic homes. My own kids have had similar upbringings.

And yes OP my parents and friends' parents were all home owners, as are we and our working class friends. I understand your sense of being offended.

I agree that what is set out there is not “working class”, it is much closer to “deprived” or from a care background. They’re not the same thing, and it smacks of an equalities statement written by someone who doesn’t know anyone from the working classes.

If I were to write it I would separate it out, so with a definition of working class, then a definition of deprived (including care background). They’re by no means the same thing.

E.g. first in family to go to uni, family working in trade, state school=likely means working class, and to be encouraged into the arts

E.g. background in a care home=Different situation, not in any way connected to being working class but also should be supported into the arts.

I can see why you find the way they have put it offensive—it smacks of someone saying working class =feckless broken home. There are a millions of proud, solid working class families who have nothing in common with many of the terms on the list.

I fit that criteria, although my daughter does not. I’m not offended by it, it says you might have been in care or been the first to go to uni. It doesn’t say you would be in care, or all in care.

Where I grew up that was an apt description.

@thepeopleversuswork

Interesting post. I am something like your lawyer friend, in terms of where I came from anyway. A few of the description in the OP apply to me; went to state school, had free school meals, precarious family income and I was the first to go to university. But I am a professional, have earned a six figure salary for the last twenty years and am mortgage free in the SE. My husband is exactly the same.

Where I differ from your friend though is that I would feel stupid and embarrassed to call myself working class now, although I will say I am from a working class background. I don’t refer to myself as any class now as I also would feel a bit silly to say I am middle class. I think I would have imposter syndrome if I did that.🙂

Actually I find the terms under class and deprived more friggen offensive. What an awful way to describe people. Many working class families have their first kid in uni, or precarious incomes,

Are people not able to read, there is a difference between the “likely” and the “might” in there.

[quote Florencex]@thepeopleversuswork

Interesting post. I am something like your lawyer friend, in terms of where I came from anyway. A few of the description in the OP apply to me; went to state school, had free school meals, precarious family income and I was the first to go to university. But I am a professional, have earned a six figure salary for the last twenty years and am mortgage free in the SE. My husband is exactly the same.

Where I differ from your friend though is that I would feel stupid and embarrassed to call myself working class now, although I will say I am from a working class background. I don’t refer to myself as any class now as I also would feel a bit silly to say I am middle class. I think I would have imposter syndrome if I did that.🙂[/quote]
I’m the same, if I described myself now as working class folks would laugh, but I say I grew up working class.

However as said, I take offence at people saying that description means I come from an under class.

I'm working class too and find that offensive.

Agreed, this doesn’t properly describe a working class upbringing but I’d say it sets out the challenges people face who most deserve consideration if an organisation wants to promote diversity.

I think if they had deleted the “working class” reference and stuck with lower socioeconomic background that would be better. I’m not offended by it but it just doesn’t make a lot of sense as it’s not a particularly accurate description. Referring to class is a bit strange these days, isn’t it? It’s a vague descriptor that is open to argument.

@flaviaritt

Yes, that’s bad. Although those things probably are more prevalent in working class families, it wouldn’t be okay to write, “If you are upper class, your family may conceal low-level alcoholism behind a civilised facade, and you may have been horribly bullied at public school but it is very unlikely your parents cared.” Dysfunctionality isn’t a feature of any particular class.

This ^ !

Wearywithteens

Thanks.

I get where you're coming from. I'm from a working class background (dad was a semi-skilled factory worker, mum did part time unskilled jobs like cleaning and factory work).

The owned their house, we went abroad.

I was the first to uni, I'd say I was still working class, with a degree, after that (my first career did not really involve my degree).

I wouldn't say I'm working class now - I retrained as a teacher, bought a house, and I'm married to an engineer (who, actually, doesn't have a degree, but is firmly middle class apparently because his dad was a civil servant). Somewhere in there I slipped over the line and ended up at bloody baby swim class, which is totally middle class.

It's complex. But I feel like it's separate from the actual poverty of free school meals and precarious household income, and separate again from growing up in care or being a young carer. Those things might be less likely if your parents are wealthy, but they are separate hardships from the barriers of simply 'being working class'.

I'd word the ad as 'We're looking to recruit people who are underrepresented in the industry. If you are from a working class background, grew up with financial hardships, caring responsibilities, or experienced the care system, we want to hear from you.' People who are from a working class background know who they are, especially if they were the first in their family to go to uni, where it is suddenly glaringly obvious.

@Ohtherewearethen

I agree with you. That description is shit.

I agree.

This description was probably written by a top-knot.

I’m from a very working class background, and I would say that ‘state educated + first person in your family to go to university’ is a useful definition of working class.

When I studied sociology at A Level is was widely understood that class was a matter of identity not solely income. I know higher earners who identify as working class and lower earners who identify as middle class.

I'm working class and many parts that description reflect my upbringing and that of most of my peers from my ex mining village.

I'd say if you genuinely have no idea of the class you were born into and raised in then you're not working class or from a low income background. I've always been very much aware of my background and it's hard not to be when, despite having a mother who worked all the hours she could, money was very tight, we had free school meals and were bullied for it, I had second hand clothes and was bullied for that by children from families with more money.

I don't thing the sneering and judging and shitty comments has gotten much better, it feels like lately there's a lot of comments on here that have very judgemental undertones towards those on low incomes.

Look at the free school meals thread. A lot of people seem to think all of those on low enough incomes to qualify are actually rolling in it. There's one running about people who have no money in the bank at the end of the month.

Last week someone was complaining about "free houses" on a thread where a woman with complex health problems means she's on benefits and was at risk of losing her private home.

Earlier today I commented on a thread where an OP was struggling to manage a crying baby and a dh who needs to work from home, she was told some pubs offer quite work spaces for £10 a day and when she said they couldn't afford that five days a week someone made a comment assuming she can just use the money he used to spend on sandwiches and coffee. I know loads of people who can't pull out £200 a month on daily coffee and sandwiches and therefore also can't afford to pay it to go and hire a table in a quiet pub every day.

@howtobe

My DH and I live on the outskirts of Glasgow and earn a good amount of money between us. But we work everyday for it sooooooo we’re working class. Maybe nearer the middle to top end of it but we bloody work hard so defo working class

Lots of people work hard every day who aren't working class. In fact there are people from every class from the bottom to the top who work hard.

I consider myself to have a combo middle/working class family background, and I am not happy with the description. It describes many of the problems/issues many low income families experience but does not accurately describe the 'working class'.

My DH and I live on the outskirts of Glasgow and earn a good amount of money between us. But we work everyday for it sooooooo we’re working class. Maybe nearer the middle to top end of it but we bloody work hard so defo working class

There's more to it than just having a job though. Working everyday doesn't make you working class.

@AgeLikeWine

I’m from a very working class background, and I would say that ‘state educated + first person in your family to go to university’ is a useful definition of working class.

I wonder about the university thing.

It really wasn't very long ago that very few people went to university at all, it wasn't just a characteristic of the working class. If you did go chances are you weren't working class but you couldn't make the opposite statement.

On the other hand there are more and more jobs that were done without a university degree in the past but require it now. People in similar kinds of jobs to their parents may now need degrees to so them.

I agree @D00MGL00M, if you know you know! Although my friends would (and in fact do) regularly hoot at the idea of me being working class, I absolutely am. I married an affluent middle class man, and I live a middle class life, but I am working class to my bones.

I suppose that's where these well-meaning schemes fall down. I know from a charity thing I do that working class voices are massively under-represented, but I don't feel that I am a working class voice. I would hesitate to apply for that job on the basis of being working class, yet the reason I left the arts 20 years ago was lack of money/stability/working class guilt at poncing about in tights when I could get a proper job...

This bbc thing sometimes gets posted on threads where people don't know what class they're from and the questions show it's about a lot more than the money you have but how you socialise, the community you live in, the people you socialise with etc.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22000973

@AgeLikeWine

I’m from a very working class background, and I would say that ‘state educated + first person in your family to go to university’ is a useful definition of working class.

I disagree with this, this describes family education levels only.

Working class/middle class is not just education and job.