Hungry kids and shitty views

[icequeen34]

I apologise as I'm sure there are already threads on this topic. But I feel so so sad and angry today, not only about Marcus Rashfords campaign to feed hungry kids over the holidays being rejected. But some of the horrible views and justifications being spouted - mainly the old 'lazy parents need to take responsibility for feeding their kids' remark. Some utter twat was saying poor families should grow their own food because 'it's not hard' and another Tory MP claimed the blame lies with absent parents (as if his leader isn't one of those).

These are terrible comments from privileged people who clearly don't understand the lack of time, money, outdoor space and education needed to grow your own or shop more savvy. But even in the cases of the worst most lazy parents, why can't people see that the children shouldn't be the ones to suffer? It really boils my blood especially when MPs get so much in terms of expenses for food.

Sorry for the rant I just feel very disappointed and upset today.

Sticking my two pence in here as a mum on UC who received the help during all of this - I didn’t necessarily agree with getting the extra help in the holidays, we don’t normally, I felt really cheeky and embarrassed but grateful, since the kids have gone back to school, kitchens have been closed so school meals have been minimal, with once child not liking anything available (and I mean very limited, and strange choices. I imagine a lot of children wouldn’t eat them) so although we’re entitled to FSM, haven’t been able to make use of it, and I have to say, I notice significantly now how much those vouchers helped us, it’s scares me and I don’t know how we will cope moving forward.

Some of us didn’t ask to be made single parents of 3 children in different stages of life with school runs so hard to manage and a nursery only taking the toddler for mornings because Covid? And therefore I really have no idea what job I can do change our situation.

Some people are very blind to some of the practicalities when their lives are different to others.

@Malachite234 how are you just going to suggest that they get up and move. Its ridiculous, you're expecting people to just get up and move across the country?

@PenguinIce

Absolutely no child should go hungry and whilst there is a need Free Meals and Food Banks etc should continue. However I feel they are just a ‘sticking plaster’ and don’t fix the problem. I would love to see a government tackle the problems of 1) high living costs and low wages and 2) making the benefits system a safety net and not a trap that once you are in it is impossible to get out of. So many people are born into poverty and there is no way out and it is so unfair.

This.

The causes of poverty need to be addressed.

Otherwise its just a sticking plaster. Whilst we slate the lazy and the feckless parents (well I'm not but others claim to know them personally....so whose to say) we want admirably to feed their children. However the cause of poverty goes unchallenged, and these children too are no less likely to become feckless, because some well meaning liberal wants to charitably feed them, or a government wants to issue food vouchers. Especially if our measure of fecklessness is poverty itself. This issue has existed for nearly 200 years.

Of course poor people have phones and TVs, but this is because its so entrenched within all of us that we must have these things, and other things too. Needs and wants are necessary because without it we would all be out of a job. As for fags and booze, its no different. Would we deny the poor any relief from their situation?

I think it needs to be actual food being delivered.

I know some places where using Amazon who once a week where sending a box with a huge tin of beans, bread, bagels, box of cereal, milk voucher for the exact cost of one 4 pint of milk, a cupboard stored cheese spread, jam etc.

I think child who are found to be routinely hungry need a super fast referral to SS some parents need support, some just need a kick up the arse and others like my neighbour will never change so the faster the support or children are removed if required the better.

People however don’t want SS involved super fast which leaves children neglected being hungry all the time should trigger SS instantly via schools so that food parcels of simple things even a kid could grab are supplied weekly while whatever the bigger picture is, is sorted.

@Wherehavetheteletubbiesgone

Why you should pay taxes to help other people’s children is beyond you?

Really?

A civilised society looks after its most vulnerable and you don’t get more vulnerable than a vulnerable child.

Taxpayers, both parents and non parents alike, contribute towards children all the time anyway through child benefit, though it’s not hard to imagine your stance on that. How about the furlough scheme? We all have, or will, pay towards that so your tax money helped to feed recipients’ children. Did you object to that or were they ‘worthy’?

I accept a minority of parents irresponsible but, shamefully, there are 4.2 million children in relative poverty in this country and I’m quite sure the majority have a parent or parents who love them and care for them to the best of their ability. And if they don’t well, surely a child who is going hungry because he or she has had the misfortune to be born to a parent does not have their best interest at heart is the very child who most needs our compassion and help?

@Handsoffisback

I think whatever the opinion is about parenting, the children should never ever be punished. As I said on a previous thread, I lived on an estate half my life where many many people didn’t/don’t work, get benefits and prioritise tattoos, false nails and other crap over feeding their children properly. Believe me it does happen, I have lived amongst people like this. My own aunt and uncle had their children removed for neglect. My cousins were never fed properly (I’m talking bag of chips from the chippy to last 4 kids a whole weekend), yet my uncle always had money for tattoos and the pub. I don’t think it’s all Dickensian style ‘no money for gas, living on gruel’ type stories. As with everything it’s a mixture. My own experiences lead me to think a voucher style system for food would be a good option in supporting families that cannot feed their children. That way the money cannot be spent on alcohol and cigarettes. If you are someone though that thinks the simple answer is ‘well the kids are the parents responsibility’ Then you need to take a good hard look at yourself. There are some really really poor parents out there that are trying their bloody hardest, but there are also some totally shite parents that don’t feed their kids properly. Does that mean we should punish the second group of children for the sins of the parent?

Very interesting point. Agreed that the children should never be punished.

Sure starts were incredible places, it was an actual tragedy when they closed. There are several things (not an exhaustive list) that would go at least part way to help:

• Access and support to adult education such as literacy, it's surprising the number of adults who cannot proficiently read and/or write, and the limits this has on securing any job is quite incredible. At the moment there are no real programmes to engage or support people, and many it's as they didn't have the support outside of school growing up, or parents/carers who didn't make getting them to school and supporting them a priority.

• Universal access to IT- to those who cannot apply for jobs, check their entitlements, or other admin stuff because they cannot get online, that's a real problem and limits things considerably. libraries provide this often but due to covid many have stopped this, which makes it really difficult.

• Improved and more timely access to MH support and rehab- both are ridiculously hard to access and have huge waiting lists. My cousin is hugely chaotic, he always has been and was expelled from school (his behaviour was terrible to be fair), but since being diagnosed as an adult with a MH condition controlled by medication, he is a different person. He has zero quals, sporadic work experience as he couldn't hold down a job, and parents who could not push for help or advocate for him as they couldn't navigate the system. Just one example, there are a load worse where poor mental health or addiction has a huge effect on families. Some waits for rehab are around 4 years, that's unacceptable really; the investment in rehab and support once out is small compared to the cost to society of not.

• Effective support workers- who can help with tasks, organisation, cooking (here they used to give out slow cookers but not any more), cooking classes even. People who can be relied upon to help, and not just as a plaster, but to help instill skills and tools to help people help themselves; that's a worthwhile investment.

• Better opportunities- having grown up on a council estate it was pretty much assumed that most of us would go on to either never work or to work menial jobs, not that there is anything wrong with the latter, just that it's hard to lift yourself out of poverty if all you're told you can achieve is a min wage job. There's fuck all instilled in schools around what you can realistically achieve besides maybe going to uni. Trades etc which do eventually become well paid should be promoted as viable and achievable career options, not just as second rate, or if you don't want to be successful as that's not the case.

Just a few, might not make much sense but it's hard to capture imo.

All of those also would improve life for children, as well as the adults who are still important.

Thinking of the scene in East is East. Mum poors out a pack of biscuits and says "breakfasts ready." yes I laughed but it is also sad. But the story was set in deprived bradford in the 70,s nowadays not so many kids are weeing in buckets and sharing beds with brothers so we have improved somewhat

@LocksMyth

When your rent alone is over £1k a month ( standard for South East) and you're on £8.72 an hour, it doesn't take much working out to be honest.

It's difficult to find a 3-bed property for under £1,300 month in my area.

Non-working families on benefits get a maximum of £1,664 a month, unless someone in the family gets a disability benefit. Say £35 for water (expensive water here), £120 for energy bills, £15 for a tv licence, £20 for internet and £32 towards the council tax (also very high in this area). That leaves around £140 a month to feed them all, provide toiletries and cleaning materials, replace worn out/outgrown clothes, shoes, and domestic appliances.

And god help them if their washing machine breaks down, it's £12 a load at the launderette and there are only 2 in the whole district. It would cost £6 in fares and take half a day to get there and back to get to a launderette from where I live. Or a new headteacher changes the uniform, and they have to buy all new stuff (no help with uniform costs from our council).

Two years ago, I did 12 applications for charity grants for school uniform for children at just one primary, and I know colleagues made applications too.

When you've seen someone in tears because their child has come home with knackered school shoes, or their school jumper has got lost, you may realise just how narrow the margins for families on benefits in high rent areas.

@eatsleepread

See, I'm torn on this. I saw something on social media the other day, about breakfasts for school children who wouldn't get one. This got me thinking. No matter how you try and justify it, any parent who sends their child to school on an empty stomach is feckless. Porridge is cheap to make, and value cereal and bread are very inexpensive too. If you're the sort of parent who doesn't provide breakfast, then you're cutting other parental corners too, and I don't mean only financially. This won't be a popular view but I stand by it. 100%. There is no excuse for sending your child hungry to school in the mornings.

So the children that have the worst, most feckless, most neglectful parents, should go hungry.

Who does it punish?

@LocksMyth, sorry, I got so caught up in my rant I forgot which post I was responding too!

You totally get it and don't need reminding, my apologies.

@Fajitanita, I agree. The loss of Sure Start was nothing less than tragic and it was the last Labour government's greatest achievement imo.

I've read some horrible comments too. We had free school meals as children as my dad died of cancer when he was 38 (I was 9), leaving my mother with 3 children to clothe and feed.
I'm lucky enough now not to need them for my own children but would never put anyone down that is in that position. And even if the parents are the type to take advantage of this and not work through choice, then that's not the child's fault. The amount of poverty in this country is disgusting, while the MP's award themselves with yet another payrise

Great post @Fajitanita. If you don't already, please consider working in politics! 👏

Why is anyone even the slightest bit surprised about this.

We have had 10+ years of Tory austerity, this has been linked to more that 100,000 deaths. After this, the British public (well the English mostly) decided the Tories deserved a massive majority in the HofC.
We get what we vote for.

www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/health-and-social-care-spending-cuts-linked-to-120000-excess-deaths-in-england/

'Buy a loaf of bread' 'porridge doesnt cost much' etc etc

Always these same shitty comments on MN. Why - even if you want to keep harping these same tired old lines out - is it the fault of a child if their parent(s) are feckless and bad with money? Is it the child's fault? No it isnt. And that is why Rashford campaigned for this. Shame on every MP that said No, and shame on anyone on here that comes up with these shitty excuses to cover their hate for poor people

I completely agree I am APOPLECTIC WITH RAGE about the government and their use of money. 12 BILLION on the failed track and trace system that has lined the pockets of government friends. 12 BILLION!!!! and yet we cannot feed children who come from vulnerable houses holds who may not be able to afford rent or pay bills and or give another 5 million to Manchester. I am truly ashamed today and yes It deserves a good cry and a commitment to vote these people out of a government that does nothing but show that it is nepotistic, self centred and completely out of touch. We are really living in a time when the government does what it wants and actually doesn't give a s**T.

some of the horrible views and justifications being spouted - mainly the old 'lazy parents need to take responsibility for feeding their kids'

But you see OP, there is some truth in it. Some parents don't take responsibility for their own kids. They simply don't care for whatever reason.
While others can't take responsibility -I am thinking of young carers- and others want to but haven't got the means to do so - like the ones that have to leave them all day (often with older sibling in charge) to go to work.

It doesn't matter what excuse or reasons are given because the children are still going to be hungry.
This grow your own is stupid. It's expensive and takes time for things to grow (and that's if you even have a garden). What are they meant to eat in the mean time?
And so what if it's down to BJ, sorry I mean absent parents? How does stating that solve the problem?
It's absolutely disgusting that children are still going hungry. It's disgusting parents are blamed for it. Wages need to go up. Benefits need to stop being a joke.
We will be told we can't afford it but it's children who don't eat. How can we not afford to feed them?

I was about to start a similar thread. Lots of people posting on Facebook that parents are responsible for feeding their kids and they resent their taxes going to free school meals.

What the actual fuck is happening to this country. Free school meals have been a thing since my mum was at school, and I’m an old bag! It’s the one benefit you can be certain is going directly to the child. I swear this country becomes more mean spirited and divided every day.

I don’t get how people don’t understand that some parents can’t work due to disability or childcare, especially single mums. There has always been poor people, there always will be, we can either help poor kids or let them starve. Even the dreadful days of workhouses didn’t deter people from being poor because the causes are so often out of an individuals control. This shithole of a country is going backwards.

It is a sad state off affairs when a government will quite happily pay millions for a railway line but are happy to let kids go hungry because of the cost.