Hungry kids and shitty views

[icequeen34]

I apologise as I'm sure there are already threads on this topic. But I feel so so sad and angry today, not only about Marcus Rashfords campaign to feed hungry kids over the holidays being rejected. But some of the horrible views and justifications being spouted - mainly the old 'lazy parents need to take responsibility for feeding their kids' remark. Some utter twat was saying poor families should grow their own food because 'it's not hard' and another Tory MP claimed the blame lies with absent parents (as if his leader isn't one of those).

These are terrible comments from privileged people who clearly don't understand the lack of time, money, outdoor space and education needed to grow your own or shop more savvy. But even in the cases of the worst most lazy parents, why can't people see that the children shouldn't be the ones to suffer? It really boils my blood especially when MPs get so much in terms of expenses for food.

Sorry for the rant I just feel very disappointed and upset today.

Great post @Fajitanita. If you don't already, please consider working in politics! 👏

I used to work for the local authority who provided some of the above services, it was heartbreaking when we were cut. Especially having grown up in that environment myself, I felt I could make a tiny bit of difference to people struggling. The truth is though that a lot of decisions of what's 'best' for people is made by those who haven't a clue. For example, and I know this will sound contraversial, I know why social housing has been made part of the fabric of communities and integrated rather than being seperate estates as much now, but honestly, you'd never get as much support as you would from your neighbours. A fiver for the leccy, looking after the little ones if needed, using so and so's landline to call about jobs (back in the day), cooking tea for the neighbours if they were struggling, splitting the taxi bill to get shopping, sharing toys and handing down clothes etc. That's largely lost now for a lot of people, and even from the threads on here you can tell the distain many have for those who live in social housing near their privately owned ones- it's just not stuff you ask. Although there are often community initiatives set up by caring people who dedicate a lot of their time to it and it's selfless; it is humiliating for some to accept donations from charity, and not the same as your peers helping you out. Obviously the absolute ideal would be the government supporting people adequately or giving them access to the tools to improve their lot in life, and there being zero prejudice towards those in social housing- but that's not the case at the moment. Also I think a lot don't realise how quickly things can change, or how much say having a disabled child can take you from being a high earner, to having to quit work because there is nothing in place to give your child the quality of life they need, or legal rights at work to allow time off for appointments etc.

So the Torys fetched the benefit cap in to stop the poorest having a decent standard of living. Which in some cases leaves people way below the poverty line when their rent is taken out of this cap. If you can only have £1666 monthly outside london regardless of family size if your rent is £900 there isnt much left over.
But the poorest where demonised so the benefits were reduced. Its not much fun if benefits go up but you are still capped and some times missing out on hundreds of pounds a month that could be paying to heat your home and feed your children.
The CSA system is flawed so absent parents get away all the time without paying for their children. Debt gets written off all the time. The government cant seem to get this system right. And those absent parents saying they have new families to support so ok the children from before should just starve should they.
People saying fsm shouldnt carry on into the holidays - i dont get why this is a big issue when the goverment ministers can claim expenses for breakfasts whilst raking in a decent wage.
If you lose your job today and have children tomorrow you can apply for fsm so your children can eat at school for free. It is a great scheme in my view all school children should get a free school meal. It is a pitance compared to mps expenses.
Also the voucher scheme benefits business because people spend them it all goes back in the system same with benefits very few people are squirreling it away.
Stop demonising the poor and look to the rich who claim expenses for things they dont need to and tax breaks they dont need.
Children should not be penalised because the government has forced you to see benefit claimants as scrounger feckless parents.

I just wish they'd give all children free school meals. No stigma, nobody (or fewer) slip through the net. All (almost) are fed.

Jesus Christ. Are people actually arguing that children, who are neglected through no fault of their own, and who cannot stand up for themselves, should not be fed because people dissaprove of their parents?

I weep for humanity. This is atrocious, no matter how people try and justify it.

And this is even assuming that all those parents are neglectful, and not just poor and disadvantaged. Still unbelievably callous.

I am reminded of the workhouse scene in 'Oliver!' when the starving orphans stare longingly at the great feast being gorged upon by the Workhouse Board.

As they always do, someone mentioned porridge a while ago.
Watered down, it has another name: gruel.

Any person begrudging kids food is a fucking twat. All kids should have full tummies it's just a basic basic need.

@AzraiL entirely agree. Sadly, there seems to be an increasingly callous element in our society, and it comes from the top down.

At least the devolved administrations in Scotland and Wales have committed to provide free school meals next Easter.

@PretendLife

I see a lot of posts on MN about useless fathers who get away with paying nothing in maintenance for their kids. Presume that it is single mum's struggling the most. I think Marcus Rashford was bought up by a single mum as well. Perhaps celeb/sports men could start a campaign to shame men that don't pay for their kids. Maybe campaign to make it illegal to avoid paying child maintenance.

I really like this idea of a male celebrity role model shaming men who don't fulfil their parenting role !

You know the days of the workhouses are coming back when people begrudge kids food!

@ghostyslovesheets

Why not pay women to have a coil placed ? Then there would be an incentive for “accidents” not to happen ?

You could also pay men to have vasectomies.

If it’s all about the kids, then the posters are right... they shouldn’t be punished.

So @Wherehavetheteletubbiesgone, if people need to 'prove' their a good parent (not sure how you'd do that but I bow to your superior knowledge as I'm sure you've thought it through), what about those whose circumstances have changed?

For example, DH is the main wage earner in our house. He's very lucky, he's in safe work. I couldn't earn what he does - he's very highly qualified and experienced in his field. If he, God forbid, dies from Covid DS and I would be struggling. Yes, we could sell our house and downsize. But that takes time. Yes, I could try to get a better paid job. But that takes time. All the while money is trickling out.

So, we're good parents. I'm a good mum but I've lost my husband or he's too ill to work. But I should have foretold that 13 years ago when we decided to try for a baby.

I'm happy to pay my taxes and was even when I was not a parent. One day that child could be wiping my chin (or more) in a care home or in a hospital or helping me in my home. It's a worthwhile investment in my view, to show children that looking after the most vulnerable is a priority. Because one day I will be one of the most vulnerable and so will you. If we live that long.

Yep let's all just move house Malachite
Because that doesn't present any bigger problems at all does it? Where do you suggest we go?

Even the sure start centres near me found a lot of the time it was the families that were not in need that used it. The parents at the stay and play were the ones who went to the other parent groups in town. Yes the breast feeding group was very useful and still goes on but again a very middle class group not saying they don,t deserve help but it meant a lot of poeple were not reached.

I had FSMs in the 80’s when my parents divorced, we were below breadline poor for a while, lived in a council house, jumble sale clothes, in a fairly affluent area, so was very aware of how poor we were. I grew up assuming things would get better for future generations, unfortunately they seem to have got much worse mainly due a refusal by all governments to address the extreme housing inequality that takes up so much income from the poor families and provides very little in the form of shelter and security. Add to that the onslaught from the Tory government over the last 10 years and the slow drip drip of the right wing press demonising working class people and it’s no surprise that those MP’s felt emboldened to vote against feeding hungry children. It’s awful.

I am sickened OP . Have just been talking to my three children who are all adults now . Yes we are middle class ,high income family and yes all are graduates BUT we as a family have compassion and would never judge people. Some people are poorly educated,have MH problems ,low self esteem and are not motivated or capable enough to see the wood for the trees where finances etc are concerned . As it has been said many times many people are only two pay checks away from poverty!!!
Our local MP voted against and he should hang his head in shame.

EatSleepRead So if your parent doesnt provide Breakfast, then you go to School hungry through no fault of your own then? As above PP says , a young child has no access to money or food because oh wait for it they are a young child who cannot go out alone or shop without any money!

Arguing over whether the parents are feckless or not is completely irrelevant.

If the parents are feckless, that's not their children's fault. Their children still need to eat.

We have to stop arguing with these people and trying to convince them they're wrong. I'm guilty of it myself even in this thread - not arguing directly, but trying to explain or teach. The fact is that there is no argument, logic, appeal to decency, or magic spell that will work. The country is being led by people who lack basic humanity and who will lie, steal, and destroy anything that is good as long as they become a bit richer in the process.

Don't argue with racists, don't argue with misogynists, and don't argue with people who support the current government or who think that the desperately poor should just 'move to a cheaper area' or 'eat porridge'. Arguing with something evil validates it and makes it 'just another way of thinking' instead of something that is objectively evil. We have to stop pretending that what the current version of the Tory party (and the people who support them) have to say is valid or deserving of any consideration whatsoever. We are not going to change the UK by convincing them they're wrong - it doesn't matter what we say because we are talking at cross purposes. They think the poor deserve all misery just because they are poor, and they believe that the rich, somehow, deserve everything good. It's an unbelievably childish and ignorant mindset but somehow, here we are. We will not get to a better place WITH these people, we will have to go through, around, or over them. We will have to overwhelm their stupidity and hatefulness with decency. We won't get there by arguing with them on facebook or Mumsnet.

I am appalled. The children’s commissioner voted with the government. Nick Gibb, schools minister supported the government. Despicable that Johnson can spend 53m on a non-existent bridge but can’t feed children.

I would prefer to see a living benefit rate created through increased child benefits to the poorest families. The continuation of vouchers is better than nothing but giving people enough to live on longer term would be better. Vouchers are stigmatising and suggesting of charity.

@eatsleepread

See, I'm torn on this. I saw something on social media the other day, about breakfasts for school children who wouldn't get one. This got me thinking. No matter how you try and justify it, any parent who sends their child to school on an empty stomach is feckless. Porridge is cheap to make, and value cereal and bread are very inexpensive too. If you're the sort of parent who doesn't provide breakfast, then you're cutting other parental corners too, and I don't mean only financially. This won't be a popular view but I stand by it. 100%. There is no excuse for sending your child hungry to school in the mornings.

You can Stand by your view all you like. I would not be so judgemental as to call names. You have no idea what could be going on in someone's life at any given time.

@Handsoffisback

mini I don’t ‘claim’ to know these people. I do know them so not sure if that was a dig at me. I am also saying their children should be supported by the government. No child deserves to go hungry, whether the parents are poor, lazy or just plain shit.

My point wasn't aimed at you specifically.

I agree no child deserves to go hungry. I have worked with children in care, so I am aware that some families are "shit" some families are shit and they aren't even poor.

The problem with child hunger and poverty have existed for 200 years. At various times the state has stepped in to varying degrees, and other times not at all, and throughout charity has existed. The problem is not going away because we are not addressing the cause of poverty.

We need to tackle the causes of poverty. What creates wealth? Its the very same thing that causes poverty. What is that thing?

When your rent alone is over £1k a month ( standard for South East) and you're on £8.72 an hour, it doesn't take much working out to be honest.

So move elsewhere with cheaper rent?

Really Malachite234 with what money? If someone is struggling to pay rent they're not going to have funds spare to pay to move unless you think walking 100's of miles with a fridge and your DC on your back is reasonable or realistic.