AIBU to wonder why the response of "LTB" so often?

[LTBorBLT]

This is a genuine question, sorry if it comes off as goady. I've NCed as well in case this gets taken the wrong way!

In most threads I see relating to relationships, a lot of problems are met with a general "LTB" response. I'm not talking about abuse or the relationship being completely dead in the water thing as obviously that's reasonable to consider leaving, I mean more along the lines of someone's husband being overweight or having a different sex drive for example (using husband as a generalisation though of course could be wife / partner etc etc).

I just wonder if people would actually leave their partners over this or advocate for other people to do it, or is it just an easy response to fire out? Legitimately curious, because unless there's abuse or serious issues I'm rarely keen to recommend "LTB" personally.

This is a website with more women than men and a generally feminist vibe. While I agree that some posters can be too quick to shout LTB, I generally value the straight talking, "don't take any shit" vibe on the this site. It's a good antidote to wider society which generally expects women to put up with too much from their male partners.

@TobblyBobbly I agree with you, it's a million times better than people getting abused and getting told to stay, for example.

I guess I just wonder why it kind of seems like the default position. I don't think I'd leave my DH for getting fat or having sex problems or being a bit rude / grumpy once in a while - I guess I see these as part and parcel of being in a marriage (so I also wouldn't advocate it for someone else unless it was an absolute end-of-the line dealbreaker and I knew that). I'm wondering if the "LTB" thing is what people actually feel, as it sometimes seems a bit trigger happy is all?

I think people know that it's unlikely someone in a broadly happy marriage is going to leave because someone on the internet said so. But I also think people know that, if you're having ongoing, intractable problems with your relationship, sometimes what you need is for lots of people to tell you you're allowed to leave. It can take a lot of hearing that before it sinks in. And society often doesn't want to condone women leaving marriages, even in 2020.

@SarahAndQuack I mean I guess it liberates people who want to leave to feel confident enough to do so. However, I think it does slowly warp your view on relationships to read an OP and think "Yeah, I do that sometimes" or "Yeah, my DH does that sometimes" and for the other posters to immediately say LTB, he's a bastard etc etc.

I guess I hold the idea that people can sometimes fuck up or do stupid things, and it doesn't mean they're irredeemable? I don't know, I guess I could just see it causing unnecessary extra conflict.

Someone told me to leave my Dh once on a thread because I wasn't happy with my birthday presents, when in fact he is a wonderful husband, just a bit crap at buying presents. No one is perfect. However I do see a lot of threads where the woman has just started dating a man and there are lots of issues early on, that's where I'd advise the OP to leave.

@Crystal87 Yeah I think there are definitely extenuating circumstances where it's probably the right thing to do to say LTB. But realistically, some of these threads are like "My DP picked up the wrong chocolate bar at the shop" and people will respond with "He did it intentionally to spite you because he's abusive and controlling and doesn't want you to be happy, LTB." I guess I just see it as seeing the worst and ignoring the possibility of humans having human shortcomings.

My DH is pretty shit at Xmas prezzies too, but he's a good bloke all year round and I would never leave him for it! He's just a person with flaws, like I am.

I do know what you mean. People can be redeemed and we all do stupid things. But on the whole I think MN is a good antidote to the rest of the world in this respect.

What do you mean by sex problems? If it's the ones where the dh sulks everytime he doesn't get sex then that should be an ltb

I admit I say it all the time, think it's justified

I once got told to LTB because DH is colourblind and still drives (it wasn't the point of the thread). There's no reason at all why he wouldn't be safe to drive but the poster appeared to think he was risking all our lives by driving with him "condition".
I have no idea why so many people on here use LTB so frequently - it's baffling. It's actually a bit of a running joke with me and DH now. It's genuinely terrifying because you do wonder how many people left partners over the paranoia created by the LTB patrol on here.

YY, I always find the ones that boil down to 'my DH is fine with marital rape' really do deserve a LTB!

It stuns me how many people (not on MN) really, genuinely do think marital rape is pretty ok.

But then there are also a lot of more grey areas where I'm not sure LTB is the solution, but you get a spider-sense that the OP is kind of looking for permission/trying to work herself round to deciding to leave.

@Shoxfordian By sex problems I mean things that are out of his control. E.g he's not been as interested in sex for the past couple weeks as he's stressed or preoccupied etc etc. Nothing to do with abuse or coercion, obviously that's a LTB situation. I do see these threads pop up though where I think some posters have obvious personal issues / life experiences at play that potentially make them think everything is a sackable offence when really a lot of it is just the highs and lows of a relationship (reiterating not in cases of abuse though)

I used to think the same as you OP, but over the years as I have read the boads, I've come to realise that many many women are in crap relationships. I don't mean a bit meh, I mean really poor relationships with really shit men.

It is depressing actually how many shit ment here are out there.

I have also realised that there are loads of women on here who have come out the other side. They have had their eyes opened to the poor behaviour of their men and now they can see through the nonsense. They are straight talkers, and sometimes I am taken aback by what they say.

But the thing I really notice is how often they are right. So many threads where I think they say LTB very quickly and I think NO! Lots of people have arguments/discussions, don't been so harsh/quick to condemn etc. But then the OP posts more and more, and they are always, always right.

I think I have been spoilt by being around too many reasonable people!

@MootingMirror That's what I mean! I'm a flawed person - I get a bit snippy when hungry or tired, I have low sex drive, I'm quite defensive etc but all of these things would probably result in a "LTB" response when really I think I'm moderately alright most of the time. Laughing at the colourblind response though, that's insane!

@SarahAndQuack Again, not in any way suggesting there shouldn't be a LTB response to glaringly obvious abuse. I just think some things require a more nuanced perspective than taking your kit and running and the first sign of a mild personality flaw tbh.

I’ve never read an unwarranted LTB on here. Normally the OP is describing horrendous behaviour that has no place within the parameters of a normal healthy relationship.

@steppemum I guess I've seen a few threads where there have been follow up posts of an OP admitting abuse / that she wants to leave for example. But more often than not I've seen threads where LTB seems like the standard response to most kinds of issue. I just wonder, unless you plan to be alone for the rest of your life, where people expect you to find a partner who is without flaws / irritating qualities?

[quote LTBorBLT]@MootingMirror That's what I mean! I'm a flawed person - I get a bit snippy when hungry or tired, I have low sex drive, I'm quite defensive etc but all of these things would probably result in a "LTB" response when really I think I'm moderately alright most of the time. Laughing at the colourblind response though, that's insane!

@SarahAndQuack Again, not in any way suggesting there shouldn't be a LTB response to glaringly obvious abuse. I just think some things require a more nuanced perspective than taking your kit and running and the first sign of a mild personality flaw tbh.[/quote]
I think there's a general refusal to give any man the benefit of the doubt or to think that OP's opener could be in any way, remotely one-sided. Things like "DH won't let me buy any clothes" will immediately get responses like LTB until you get further down the thread and find out that she's a clear shopaholic, they're in tonnes of debt, she doesn't work and has wardrobes full of designer outfits. You'll get "DP won't take the day off work to look after the kids who are too sick to go to school" and immediate LTB LTB LTB but it turns out that they aren't his children and they've been together for six months and OP doesn't work.
People also seem completely oblivious to when OP's story dramatically changes as the thread goes on.

Yes, LTB over the smallest thing. But of course the format is to blame: you post an incident highlighting one questionable incident of behaviour, you can expect to receive that type of response. If someone posted that about us we’d also be castigated as awful people. We all do stupid shit and act selfishly on occasion. This is not the same as systemic abuse which should absolutely be called out.

Women will receive responses like “why did you marry this terrible person??” when they may actually have numerous other character strengths and a loving relationship history that isn’t encapsulated in an op. This is a very poor place for advice on minor marital transgressions.

@Redolent

Yes, LTB over the smallest thing. But of course the format is to blame: you post an incident highlighting one questionable incident of behaviour, you can expect to receive that type of response. If someone posted that about us we’d also be castigated as awful people. We all do stupid shit and act selfishly on occasion. This is not the same as systemic abuse which should absolutely be called out.

Women will receive responses like “why did you marry this terrible person??” when they may actually have numerous other character strengths and a loving relationship history that isn’t encapsulated in an op. This is a very poor place for advice on minor marital transgressions.

I really enjoy that every time OP tries to say "he's a great person and we have a great relationship" in their OP, they get a dozen comments saying "HE IS NOT A GREAT PERSON IF HE HAS THIS ONE FLAW!!!!"

I think because quite often there has been a lot of bad things going on in a relationship before a woman starts posting here for advice. And very often it comes out her partner has so effectively gaslighted her that any stranger could see that there is clearly something very wrong, but she still doubts her own gut feeling.

I see this very often here and I think the sad reason for this is that some women doubt themselves so much after what has been going on that they rather trust the judgement of strangers on this anonymous website then their own experience and boundaries.

@MootingMirror I mean honestly maybe it's just not RTFT? Maybe people read the title, make a snap decision and go for it, because that's how it seems a lot of the time. I think people are often unaware of the fact that the story is very one-sided (which I guess you can't blame them for) but similarly there's every chance that "DH ignored me this morning at breakfast" because you shouted at him and said he wasn't a hard worker the night before but wouldn't apologise- just a random example.

I mean I also think there's a bit of a gender cut too, in that female posters with male partners are usually quicker to get the "LTB" response but I guess that's maybe a part of the atmosphere on Mumsnet and a subsection of the feminism boards potentially.

I'm totally with you. I very rarely see a thread where the responses are 'that sounds hard, but you can work through it if that's what you both want.' The expectation on MN seems to be that if a marriage isn't solidly brilliant at all times, you should split up. Which is fine if it's your choice, but personally I believe that most marriages have their ups and downs and sometimes they do need a bit more work if you want them to be successful.

If my DP were on MN I imagine he could post loads of stories about me where (if the genders were obscured) people would tell him to leave me. But they're isolated incidents, broken up by times when I've been brilliant, and long periods of being nice but unremarkable. Similarly, there have been a handful of things that he's done over the years which would get short shrift on here, but they're part of a much wider tapestry of our relationship. We've been together 12 years, so unsurprisingly it hasn't always been 10/10.

That said - I do respect that so many women on MN are happier alone than in relationships, I think it's very impressive and in contrast to wider society where a lot of us a bit on the co-dependent side.

@redolent I definitely agree with you! I think if someone pinpoints all your shit traits, doesn't add any context / shit parts of their behaviour and then slaps it in AIBU I guess it makes sense there's a "LTB" response. I guess unless the poster said it was a constant problem that there was no attempt at fixing or it was the absolute kiss of death for their relationship, I probably wouldn't jump at the LTB thing. But I suppose I'm pretty hardcore into sticking to marriage unless things go seriously wrong, so maybe people have a lighter hearted view.

@MootingMirror And yes hahaha! When people decide for you what your relationship is like, despite knowing your 100 word summary of a very specific issue.

@LaBellina I mean I guess yeah to come to forums you probably are getting very worn down by a problem. But I guess being the one to post doesn't automatically make you the victim / the person who should leave, yknow? Or everyone in a relationship would be posting what their partner said in a fight and everyone would have the LTB response, despite it being a mutual issue.

I usually find I’m thinking it on a thread where people say it - posters do seem to put up with a load of shit. One situation I’ve seen a couple of time that genuinely baffles me tho was when lots of people supported women who wanted to leave their partners who didn’t want more children. Seemed bizarre to me that you’d break up a family to have hypothetical kids with ‘someone else’.

It’s always interesting to me when people don’t say LTB either, so emotional affair = yes LTB but serious debt/financial mismanagement = stick it out and be supportive. On a thread a few weeks ago someone whose husband had totalled their car while drink driving and was about to lose his job was told by lots of PPs that she would have to drive him to work . I would be more likely to leave someone who jeopardised his life/family/career through drink driving than someone who liked some sexy insta posts but there we go.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1861251-To-wonder-why-some-peoples-response-is-always-LTB

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2814809-To-hate-the-LTB-brigade

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2635971--To-think-there-are-too-many-cries-of-LTB-on-MN

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3446409-To-think-people-shouldnt-be-so-quick-to-say-LTB

maybe your answer is in one of these?

I agree with Steppemum, in that many who post have been in that situation and some out the other side, so will free to express their opinion, as I for one, wouldn't want any person to be in a toxic situation having been in one. And you do pick up on signs quicker when you have been through the experience.

I am on a fbook group for woman and very often there are posts on there from a woman whose husband has had an/multiple affairs and she is looking for advice. Most of the replies are very much opposite to LTB, most are along the lines of, find out what the problem is that caused him to do this, you should forgive and forget and not throw away years on one small indiscretion etc etc. I have to just scroll on by as I would probably be lambasted if I went on there and asked why she would put up with this shit.... But the demographic of the group may have something to do with it.... not quite sure how I ended up on the group but it is mostly very affluent people, divorcing would probably involve huge settlement disputes, and dare I say, a huge downgrade in lifestyle should it come to it. So to see the replies there is a bit of an eye opener to me. It is all a lot of smile and wave....

I much prefer to be here and I find most of the replies to the post on pointe, direct yes but sometime the poster just needs some honest opinions from outsiders. I am not quick to post LTB but there have been many threads where I have.