AIBU to wonder why the response of "LTB" so often?

[LTBorBLT]

This is a genuine question, sorry if it comes off as goady. I've NCed as well in case this gets taken the wrong way!

In most threads I see relating to relationships, a lot of problems are met with a general "LTB" response. I'm not talking about abuse or the relationship being completely dead in the water thing as obviously that's reasonable to consider leaving, I mean more along the lines of someone's husband being overweight or having a different sex drive for example (using husband as a generalisation though of course could be wife / partner etc etc).

I just wonder if people would actually leave their partners over this or advocate for other people to do it, or is it just an easy response to fire out? Legitimately curious, because unless there's abuse or serious issues I'm rarely keen to recommend "LTB" personally.

I know exactly what you mean, OP. There are some threads where the LTB advice is thoroughly justified, as the OP is being abused. (My DSis’s first marriage was abusive; it might have really helped her to have a consensus on Mumsnet telling her that her XH was abusive and she should LTB.

However, there are also threads where it’s just a case of an otherwise loving partner being selfish/insensitive on one occasion, where the OP just wants to vent.

I posted such a thread a few years ago, when our DDs were 6 and 3 (they’re now 11 and 8). I was having a vent about my DH having ‘man flu’. He was off work with a cold and feeling sorry for himself. I wanted to pop out to our Tesco Express to buy a few essential items. My DH said he couldn’t cope alone with our DDs on his own for that length of time.

I was fed up at that moment and just having a moan. My DH is a lovely husband and a great dad. (When I reminded him of this incident a couple of years ago, he was suitably embarrassed about it.)

I still had one poster tell me that my DH was abusive because of that one incident.

For me, the vast, vast majority of men described on the Relationships board sound like I'd a million times rather be single than be in a relationship with them. Not just the abusive ones. The lazy ones, the shouty ones, the bad fathers, the pestering for sex ones, the porn-watching ones, the ones who neglect their family for their hobby, the borderline alcoholic ones, the ones who take (any) illegal drugs. And more. I'd unquestionably rather be single forever than even date any of them, never mind be married to them!

I couldn't agree with this more.
I am so thankful that my dh is a decent bloke.
But that makes it sound as if I just 'got lucky' whereas part of it is down to making decent choices too. I have never stood for crap in a relationship. I was 32 when we got married, and wasn't expecting to meet anyone. I had had a couple of long term boyfriends, but I had had long times of being single, simply because I wasn't interested in a relationship at any cost, I only wanted a relationship with someone worth having.

@Mittens030869 I do think the word "abusive" on here is sometimes correlated too much with just having some shit personality traits - e.g. someone can be a bit insensitive every once in a while and I wouldn't personally consider it abusive (I would consider it abusive if it were frequently unkind to the OP, excessively cruel, violent, controlling etc etc). There are different levels of abuse of course, though. I just think the off-chance of being a bit selfish or saying something unthinkingly aren't abusive in and of themselves.

Also yeah the thing with your DH- that's exactly the kind of thread I mean. Where you're maybe looking for a bit of a vent, or you want to know if you're being unreasonable in that one specific situation (not if your whole relationship is a sham, because realistically all responses to questions like those are speculation and leaves everyone with the capacity to fill in their own gaps).

@steppemum I definitely get that - I would consider myself to have an absolutely great husband. He's very caring, affectionate and looks after me well and we make a great team. However, there's been a few events where he's been snippy / a bit selfish / rude etc, and I wouldn't consider these things abusive because I can understand the context and causation of why he behaved that way.

[quote LTBorBLT]@Mittens030869 I do think the word "abusive" on here is sometimes correlated too much with just having some shit personality traits - e.g. someone can be a bit insensitive every once in a while and I wouldn't personally consider it abusive (I would consider it abusive if it were frequently unkind to the OP, excessively cruel, violent, controlling etc etc). There are different levels of abuse of course, though. I just think the off-chance of being a bit selfish or saying something unthinkingly aren't abusive in and of themselves.

Also yeah the thing with your DH- that's exactly the kind of thread I mean. Where you're maybe looking for a bit of a vent, or you want to know if you're being unreasonable in that one specific situation (not if your whole relationship is a sham, because realistically all responses to questions like those are speculation and leaves everyone with the capacity to fill in their own gaps).

@steppemum I definitely get that - I would consider myself to have an absolutely great husband. He's very caring, affectionate and looks after me well and we make a great team. However, there's been a few events where he's been snippy / a bit selfish / rude etc, and I wouldn't consider these things abusive because I can understand the context and causation of why he behaved that way.[/quote]
There are definitely some people who like to make armchair diagnoses and label people (narcissistic is another one that's often used incorrectly), but as has already been mentioned, it takes a lot for someone to leave. If their partner isn't actually ruining their life, it would take more than a bunch of strangers to persuade them to leave. If their partner as ruining their life, a bunch of strangers saying that could be enough to get that niggle at the back of their mind to grow and grow to the point where they have enough confidence to listen to their instincts and escape.

We all deserve a basic level of dignity and compassion, and we need to reinforce the message that being single (whether that's on your own, or as a single mother) is nothing to be ashamed of. I think a lot of mums get caught in bad relationships because they secretly fear how they will be judged if they separate. Sometimes leaving isn't the right answer, but when it is, it should be better supported.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4057079-to-think-others-would-find-this-very-irritating-too
Just came across this thread and it's the perfect example. SO many people telling OP to LTB due to ONE problem in their relationship.

@rainkeepsfallingdown I guess I think that people are more likely to end healthy (or at least relationships with the potential for improvement) over "abuse" whereas realistically in a lot of cases it's just general incompatibility / personality flaws that you might find in anyone. I know most people won't jump to get out of a relationship based on the responses of the MN clan, but I think it does slowly warp your thinking if you read enough threads.

Definitely agree that if you're not happy in your relationship, being single is the right move though.

@MootingMirror That's a good example! I wasn't sure if it was okay to link other threads as examples (as I'm worried this is teetering on "thread about other threads" territory) but thank you for providing that! I usually stop reading if I see too many people saying LTB over something I don't understand but I wish I had some more examples to try and explain what I mean. Glad somebody else gets it though, and suggests it's not necessarily a lack of empathy / common sense on my part (hopefully)!

@MootingMirror

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4057079-to-think-others-would-find-this-very-irritating-too Just came across this thread and it's the perfect example. SO many people telling OP to LTB due to ONE problem in their relationship.

well in this case I wouldn't be saying LTB because if anything he is doing, bu they sound seriously incompatable!

@steppemum You're right. They do sound incompatible on that one issue but OP clearly states throughout that they're very compatible on every other part of their relationship and have no other issues. There are also plenty of options that they could try - he could reduce the bass on his music so it's harder to hear from another room, she could wear earplugs, she could try to enjoy his music, he could get in-shower headphones etc etc etc. But people don't suggest anything to help - they just say OP should leave.
To make things worse, they're very nasty about him - somehow her wanting silence is a basic right but him wanting music is abusive. He's been called selfish, uncaring, unkind, rude etc etc etc when he has as much right as her to control his own ears. He's already compromised by wearing earplugs and reducing the amount he listens to it but not one person on the thread (at the point I read it) suggested that OP should compromise.
I've seen at least ten threads today with this pattern so I don't really know how PPs have never seen any during their use of MN.

I do agree with you mooting, and yes there are sometimes double standards, but in many cases, like this, the one issue becomes overwhelming. It colours everything else and in the end it is the thing that breaks the relationship.

And that isn't really about the (in this case) music per se, it is about how as a couple they communicate with each other in the process.

To me, reading the OP, there is a deep flaw between them, which is going to be really hard to fix or cross. I would never post LTB on this thread (actually I have only ever posted that about 2x in 18 years) but I would not be the least surprised if the thread ended up with them splitting up.

And although I read a lot of threads in relationships, no I don't see a lot like this, I see many many more where the OP is asking Is this OK? When it should be obvious that it really isn't.

@steppemum It will definitely colour and negatively affect the relationship if you don't address it or try to change it. If either party is totally unwilling to try and commit to a compromise, then "LTB" away if you'd like to because at that point most opportunities for change have been exhausted. It may be a tricky issue to fix, but marriage is full of those tricky issues and jumping ship (unless you intend to be single) is not a way of avoiding these problems IMO.

I see quite a few of these threads, and quite a few of OPs asking "is this okay?" and I think it's not healthy to have the same response for both, when one is a matter of personal preference and one is a matter of domestic abuse and / or violence.

OTOH I've seen posters telling women that should be ok with what is clear sexual abuse/ rape.

Every thread gets a variety of responses. I don't go on relationships that much but I don't see threads where LTB is thrown around without good reason. Except when they're joking!

@NiceGerbil I agree with you and I think some posters do dismiss legitimate abuse (which is awful). But I don't think going the other way and saying LTB / calling abuse at a lot of posts where the OP and partner just have some incompatibilities helps either the OP, the people reading the thread or victims of abuse.

I've seen the jokey threads - not the ones I'm talking about, don't worry!

Because many women have appallingly low standards for what they'll accept in a partner.

OP it's a free chat board and anonymous, with a huge membership.

I see as much support for men who aren't even in the conversation, as posters saying LTB.

memorably a woman who got drunk and woke up in the morning to pain which indicated anal sex, something she had always said no to. And she was bleeding a lot and didn't want to go to the doc because she was embarrassed... Had more than one poster saying well, what's the problem? He's your husband etc. Really shocking.

So I'm not sure what you want out of this thread. The best way to counteract views you see as OTT is to post on them with your view.

@NiceGerbil Er I guess it's just more neutral to do it in an independent thread (as if some posters see something as abuse and you see it as a miscommunication / general personality flaw, you can be lumped in with the "abuse sympathisers" for asking, which I don't think I am honestly). As for that example, that's rape and horrendous abuse and it's disgusting to try and justify it. I'm not talking about cases of abuse though, as obviously the OP should be told to leave for her safety and the notion that "he's your husband" should be counteracted by posters as quickly as possible. There's absolutely no question who's in the wrong there.

Anyway, it's entirely possible I am being unreasonable. I have just seen a lot of threads crop up where I don't agree with the LTB verdict, and wanted to know why it's so common (or at least why I perceive it as so common!).

You're not being reasonable or unreasonable.

There's thousands of women on here who will respond as they will for their own reasons.

It might be more useful to you, when you see a thread that you think has unreasonable LTB to ask some of the posters directly/ or just make a general comment asking why they feel that way iyswim.

Like I say, I've not seen it, but I'm not a regular on relationships.

Hiya @NiceGerbil.

I have previously done that, but as I said above you get lumped in with "abuse apologists" / goady arseholes for asking (when I don't see certain situations as abuse or a need to LTB - some to me are just misunderstandings or rough patches). Anyway, whatever I am it's good to see some perspectives on "LTB"ing. It's not a phrase I'll probably ever use - e.g. if I think that's necessary I'll write a para and explain it- but here we are!

Sometimes you need a thick skin on MN for sure!

It's hard but useful to try and keep an open mind and think well have I missed something.

But also hold your ground if you're sure you haven't!

If you can be bothered...

And remember there are people who enjoy posting extreme views. For their own reasons. And not just pick up on those but look at the thread as a whole.

Sometimes you realise you are reacting to a handful of posts out of a thread with hundreds of more moderate views.

@NiceGerbil Sometimes you realise you are reacting to a handful of posts out of a thread with hundreds of more moderate views.

I mean I think that's probably (if not definitely) true. Threads do tend to do a lot of flip-flopping anyway I suppose, so you'll get a few pages of people saying one thing strongly and then another few people saying the opposite as a response. I guess I'm always trying to analyse why people post stuff that I consider inflammatory, but maybe it goes no deeper than they want it to be inflammatory. Anyway, good food for thought! Thank you

Yes there are definitely posters who want to get a rise.

You need to try not to react to that and look at the thread as a whole. Then it all seems saner.

It's easy to read a bonkers post or two and get irate and not notice the many more normal ones.

@LittleGwyneth I love what you have written. Amen.

So I just read the music thread linked above and I don't think it's a good example, actually it's an example of what I said a few pages back. On reading the first few lines it seems like there isn't much of a problem - "my DH likes to listen to music and I don't". No reason to LTB there. However read on and we find out the DP blares music all waking hours (his waking hours, not OPs, so she always gets woken up). He doesn't talk to her, and if she wants to talk to him the headphones get reluctantly taken out with an eye roll and him saying "this better be good". She had tried to talk to him about it and he has said he won't be compromising. Not even a small thing like not playing it in the shower (that's five minutes out if each day!), so OP can sleep.

OK he doesn't have to go to jail over this, but does this sound like a happy home? Every thing else is good? But there is no conversation and OP is constantly stressed and on edge in her own home. Now in this case OP stated that she didn't want to break up, so I wouldn't comment LTB. But I can see why some people did.

I hardly ever say LTB because of the actual situation that happened, but because I see severe boundary pushing or disrespect or unequalness. Most situations can be resolved if both parties are acting normal and respectful. If one party doesn't see the other as equal then there is no point in going on, it will never be resolved.

I don't very often comment but honestly about 75% of the threads I read about DPs my response would be "FGS just leeeeavvve!"
I don't post because it's not helpful or constructive but lots of relationships sound absolutely exhausting and I couldn't be arsed with it!

@lazylinguist Do you consider me to have these things based on what I've said?

I honestly have no idea. I expect we have different levels of bar/tolerance/boundaries, given what we've both said on the thread, but it's not absolutely clear how wide that difference is from the examples you've given.

I admit that my attitude is probably quite far towards the other extreme, in that even as a very young woman, almost anything was enough to put me off dating someone. I'm 49 and I only ever had 2 boyfriends (including dh), and not for lack of being asked. Plenty of sexual partners, but only 2 relationships. If I found myself single now, I would not seek another relationship - the odds of finding a man I would be totally happy with are too small!

The music thread linked above is a good example of what appears to be a minor issue. But the OP says they argue day-in day-out about it. The dh blares music out all the time and clearly has no intention of taking any notice of his wife's distress about it. That says a lot about his attitude as a partner.