AIBU to wonder why the response of "LTB" so often?

[LTBorBLT]

This is a genuine question, sorry if it comes off as goady. I've NCed as well in case this gets taken the wrong way!

In most threads I see relating to relationships, a lot of problems are met with a general "LTB" response. I'm not talking about abuse or the relationship being completely dead in the water thing as obviously that's reasonable to consider leaving, I mean more along the lines of someone's husband being overweight or having a different sex drive for example (using husband as a generalisation though of course could be wife / partner etc etc).

I just wonder if people would actually leave their partners over this or advocate for other people to do it, or is it just an easy response to fire out? Legitimately curious, because unless there's abuse or serious issues I'm rarely keen to recommend "LTB" personally.

Because a lot of men treat women like shit

I agree. Yes, sometimes there is a reason for it. However, there is this mentality that the worst case scenario is a fact based on nothing. It's one thing to ask guiding questions to get a better view. It feels like everyone has a perfect relationship where there is never an issue they wonder about. Forums are so mainstrem now that posting doens't mean it's the last straw. It just kinda sucks to post something and not getting genuine advice.

@LittleGwyneth I've seen a few posts suggesting counselling, but way more frequently the LTB thing honestly. I definitely agree with you though, relationships all have their unique issues and you have to ascertain what is a legitimate core value and therefore unchangeable vs what is just a shitty mood / uncomfortable situation / downside of a LTR. "Nice but unremarkable" is what I think most people are most of the time, bar of course abuse or serious relationship harm, and I'm sure some of the things I've said or done would warrant a LTB ("Leave the bitch" potentially?) response on MN. However, I do my best for my DH and always work on growing so that I'm shitty in lesser ways.

I guess my issue is "LTB" suggests guilt on one party for essentially ruining the relationship. There are constructive ways to say "you could work through this, but if you've had enough it's okay if you want to leave" without necessarily jumping to the extreme of it being due to one person being a bastard. Maybe it's due to people having similar experiences which ended up being the death of the relationship, but I guess most of the time I think being middle-ground is the way to progress and try out some other avenues before making a big decision like divorce.

[quote LTBorBLT]@steppemum I guess I've seen a few threads where there have been follow up posts of an OP admitting abuse / that she wants to leave for example. But more often than not I've seen threads where LTB seems like the standard response to most kinds of issue. I just wonder, unless you plan to be alone for the rest of your life, where people expect you to find a partner who is without flaws / irritating qualities?[/quote]
well, overall, I think the LTB is usually justified.

There are some threads where some people (including me) say - Whoa slow down, how about a conversation, or some counselling, or just give him a break etc.

But to be honest I say that much less often, because so often I have been proved wrong.
There was one recently, DP in a strop, all over food.
LTB from post one. I posted to say - hold on, just talk to him about it. A couple of others agreed with me.
But in the end, we were toatlly wrong, and he was massively freeloading from her.
The LTB brigade have a nose for it!

I think that people are quite good at seeing through an OP too. Another one recently where she posted about her DP, and immediately the replies were against her and giving him the benefit of the doubt.
the more she posted, the more it seems like those initial replies were right.

There are very few where I think the LTB is over the top.
And it really isn't about normal flaws etc. Or just someone being irritating, they are seeing something underneath.

Also I think that some posters aren't saying LTB, they're saying the slightly subtler "he's unlikely to change so if this really bothers you, you should leave." A different way of saying that you can't change him but only your reactions to him.

@aneleanor I think divorce is often a costly option particularly when kids are involved, and so it should be genuinely felt by at least one party in a marriage rather than "this action was a bit shit, MN says it's divorce worthy so now I'm confused about if you're a bit shit too."

@ThistleWitch Oh my bad, never saw those threads before! Still, always fun having a bit of a whinge ;)

What I quite like about the LTB response is that there are people I would LOVE to say it to irl but you can’t really. A friend had the kind of relationship that would come up on a MN thread - lots of little things that did reflect a wider pattern of unpleasantness and control. I had to be tactful while she was in the relationship and coming to her own conclusions but if she’d come on here I am sure she would have got a number of LTB responses and it might have sped the process up tbh. As it was it took months and only months after the break up has she been able to reflect on some of the nastier elements of her ex’s behaviour.

@Juniperandrage Because a lot of men treat women like shit.

You're right, they do. But I don't consider biological sex to be the biggest factor in who's right in an argument / who's the bastard.

@Rezrex I hear ya! I have an imperfect relationship but it's a very happy one. If we do shitty things we'll usually have a conversation about it (admittedly maybe after a bit of sulking- working on that though) and then push through - makes you stronger after a while. I guess I can equate the ease of "LTB" to wanting to stay in the happy honeymoon early stages of a relationship without any of the grit of pushing through the difficulties in hopes that you and your partner will work and get better.

@steppemum I see your points. Maybe it's just the threads I'm reading, but I read every single post and still don't understand a lot of "LTBs" if I'm honest. Unless you've surpassed every route of getting better or your husband is actually a bastard (e.g. abusive or totally unwilling to change for example) then I don't think advocating for leaving is the best idea, unless that's what OP specifically says they're considering.

@TobblyBobbly I guess "He's unlikely to change so if this bothers you, leave" and "Leave the bastard" have different connotations in my mind though.

I don't agree OP. It's a running joke on here - "DH left the toilet seat up once" "LTB!" but actually I rarely see that. 99% of the time it's some terrible situation being described.

Also the op often buries the lede. Eg, the title of the thread will be "DH didn't buy me flowers for valentines day", but further posts reveal he also physically abuses her. Why the op seems to consider the flower thing worse is another question. But if you have just read the title or skimmed through the thread, you might think LTB is an overreaction.

@AnEleanor I guess I see that as a personal friend though - you know the background, you know her as a person and you see what's genuinely good for her as you have good intentions for friends. I think strangers on an internet forum don't have these things a lot of the time, though.

I think a PP also makes a really good point about gaslighting.

twice in the last 2 days I have read threads which went along the lines of:
DP is calling me names and threw something at me and the baby. Is that OK?
the OP genuinely didn't know if this was extreme behaviour of not.
You see it SOOO often. another example-
He controls every penny and wouldn't let me buy a new car seat for dd?
etc etc.
The OP is genuinely not sure if her partners behaviour is within the borders of reasonable.
It often takes the strangers on the interenet to say - no sweetheart, that is not normal, that is actually emotional/financial abuse. You do not need to put up wiht it. It is OK to leave.
Even - here is the phone number for women's aid.

the thing is, I don't meet many men like that in real life, so I am not tuned in to them.

[quote LTBorBLT]@aneleanor I think divorce is often a costly option particularly when kids are involved, and so it should be genuinely felt by at least one party in a marriage rather than "this action was a bit shit, MN says it's divorce worthy so now I'm confused about if you're a bit shit too."

@ThistleWitch Oh my bad, never saw those threads before! Still, always fun having a bit of a whinge ;)[/quote]
I love a good whinge....

@RaisinGhost

I guess maybe our definition of "terrible situation" is different. E.g husband's been a bit of a prick but we are usually alright is not my definition of a terrible situation personally. I also think if we have little to no insight on why somebody did something or the context of those actions then it's hard to determine who's a bastard.

E.g. "My DH punched a stranger when we were in a club" could easily be "My DH punched a stranger when we were in a club because they were trying to roofie someone". I agree in the situation like that the communication would be a problem, but sometimes what you see is not always the same when there's context, in my opinion. (obviously just a randomly thought up and probably not especially strong example)

@steppemum I guess it can prevent further gaslighting, I can see that. I can 100% understand it in situations of abuse or if the OP's DH is inarguably being a bastard and has previous form for being one, but I think if you're trying to warn someone that there are traits as a precursor to abuse then "LTB" isn't the right thing to say / the right way to say it. Just my opinion though, of course!

I’ve never seen any “my husband bought the wrong chocolate LTB” threads that were in any way serious.

Having lurked for years on here and on the relationships board, the threads that are v long and that contain many LTBs are often justified. A lot of people who come here for help are in truly dire relationships.

I think working it out and communicating well is all part of a healthy relationship. But when I read a thread talking about how someones DP does absolutely f all with the kids, or the house, expects their DW to do all the emotional labour for the whole family, are tight with money and genuine affection, never respond to any sort of request to improve - maybe even show abusive behaviours....I just think - leave the fffing bastard!

I agree if that was the post but I've rarely seen one like that. It's always "my DH has cheated many times", "my DH is a gambling addict", "my DH is constantly very cruel to me", "my DH controls our money and I don't have access".

One the other day described a minor issue then casually mentioned the DH has raped her many times.

All you can say is LTB in those situations.

There must be two Mumsnets - one where this never happens and one where it happens dozens of times every day.

@RaisinGhost I've seen a few "LTB" threads over partners going out during lockdown - which I'll agree is a very selfish thing to do, but I'm not sure it warrants the messy emotional and financial damage that divorce can do over a temporary problem.

(Not to dismiss lockdown or anything like that, I agree it's an irresponsible way to behave)

And on every one of these threads where most people are saying LTB, there is always one person saying "oh come on now, why does everyone alway says LTB, how ridiculous, he only raped you twice, you can work it out, all marriages have problems..."

@MootingMirror Maybe I'm just mad! Crazier things have happened I suppose ;)

"And on every one of these threads where most people are saying LTB, there is always one person saying "oh come on now, why does everyone alway says LTB, how ridiculous, he only raped you twice, you can work it out, all marriages have problems..."

I am in no way trying to be or resemble this type of person.

MootingMirror Maybe it's the time of day we log on or something.

@RaisinGhost @MootingMirror I do a lot of very late night scrolling which is probably when the trolls come out to play, so maybe that's something to do with it. Or maybe everyone's a bit shattered and fed up, not sure.

LTBorBLT Well fair enough, that going out example isn't something I'd even worry about, let alone LTB for. I'd say by my count that those threads comprise about 5% of the LTBs, whereas abuse, being horrible, and deep incompatibilty comprise the other 95%. But seems like peoples counts differ, I guess we don't all see every thread.

[quote LTBorBLT]@steppemum I guess it can prevent further gaslighting, I can see that. I can 100% understand it in situations of abuse or if the OP's DH is inarguably being a bastard and has previous form for being one, but I think if you're trying to warn someone that there are traits as a precursor to abuse then "LTB" isn't the right thing to say / the right way to say it. Just my opinion though, of course![/quote]
But that isn't remotely what they are doing

They are tellling someone that they are BEING abused. That the behaviour they are encountering is not right. This isn't about some mythical possible future behaviour.

gaslighting means that you have become accustomed to something that isn't right and now you don't notice it because it is part of your everyday normal.

Thread yeasterday - is this behaviour OK (can't remember what, but very much not OK) Everyone, NO, not OK, OP slightly surprised at the complete agreement.
one poster replied and suggested she look at the woman's aid website where there is something I think is called DASH which is an assessment tool to see if your relationship is abusive.

OP went away and came back and said the tool said she was HIGH RISK. Cue dawning realisation from the OP that her life was far from normal.
Sympathy and advice from other posters.