To be purposefully late?

[Crunchycadbury]

I work weekend evenings and by the time I travel home, shower, eat and go to bed it's gone past midnight. I also have bouts of insomnia where I'm unable to sleep until gone 2-3am meaning sometimes I only have 5 or less hours sleep.

My child is in nursery two days per week, Monday and Tuesday. He starts at 9 and finishes at 4.30. In order to get him there on time I have to get up at 7am to get myself and the two kids ready. Breakfast. 30 minute walk both ways.

Given that nursery isn't compulsory I'm starting to resent the rushing and lack of sleep which is causing me to feel burnt out.

It doesn't help that they are 'fussy' and don't like lateness as they want the children to participate in circle time.

AIBU to put my foot down and say he's starting later and that's that?

Midnight isn't late,I don't know why this should interfere with getting your dc there on time.especially on a Tuesday when you hadn't worked the night before.
Your dc will become embarrassed to be the one always going in late,you need to get them there on time op.

I think you'd be best to have another look at the nurseries near by. This one might be lovely, but right now it's adding (totally unnecessarily) to your stress. It's NOT worth it.

Find one that has more flexibility.

And is preferably closer to home! You're currently using up too much time & energy just on the nursery runs!! Yes, it would be easier if you had a car & drove, but you need to deal with the situation as it actually IS right now.

I used Nytol for a while and once accidentally bought the herbal one - it was as good as useless! Even with the regular one I found it worked best if I didn't use it too often. & the downside was feeling SO groggy in the morning!

look after yourself 🌷

So, what do Childrens Services do with these reports? Do they come around to the house and ask mothers why their children are 10 mins late for circle time?

Funny how the "safeguarding" people are always quiet on details.....

@CupidStunt2020

So, what do Childrens Services do with these reports? Do they come around to the house and ask mothers why their children are 10 mins late for circle time?

Funny how the "safeguarding" people are always quiet on details.....

why do you care?

the nursery have a duty of care

I don’t really understand why your child is in nursery if it’s just causing you so much hassle really. A two year old doesn’t need to be in nursery at all, legally or otherwise. The nursery is really far away too, I wouldn’t be putting myself through that personally.

Of course you should be on time though, yes. It is disruptive in any setting when someone is perpetually late.

To me “report” just meant to the admin/office team to keep a record of. Apologies as I’m a primary school teacher so am obviously thinking about things from a school point of view, which as others have pointed out is a bit different. I do think it’s easy to be flippant and say “oh please, little Johnny is being held hostage by his father” and think you’re making a point, when you really don’t know what could be going on in some families and what indicators could alert staff to this. Safeguarding is certainly no joking matter in childcare and education settings, and I believe private nurseries do get closed down for not having tight enough safeguarding procedures. Serious incidents such as domestic violence etc aside, the OP has in fact admitted that she is struggling, and the nursery noticing the pattern of attendance/lateness means that they can support this. I am imaging a phone call if he hasn’t arrived by 9.30am to say “Hello, just wondering if everything is ok and Johnny is coming in today?” OP you could anticipate this if running late give them a ring yourself on the way just to say “Hi it’s Johnny’s Mum, we’re just running a bit late this morning but we’re on our way”.

the nursery have a duty of care

More buzzwords! What does that actually mean though, in context? What is there "duty of care" here? It doesn't actually MEAN anything when you just throw it out there.....

@Hardbackwriter It's a private nursery (DS is only 14 months). I think most of the parents were happy for it to open as safely as possible - they were consulted on the options and this was what was chosen by the majority.

@Crunchycadbury

Thank you for the replies.

The nursery isn't attatched to a school no, it's private.

To give an example of what I mean by fussy: we were running late on one occasion and they called to see where he was.

I appreciate what people are saying about not causing disruption to the rest of the children, I'm just so drained.

I have another, smaller, child here to look after too and I'm no use to anybody when I'm running on empty and grouchy from lack of sleep.

When DS isn't at nursery the children will sleep in until around 8.30 - 9.00am. It's not ideal and not sustainable forever esp when they start school, but it works for me at the moment with work.

Of course they called to ask where he was if you were late - they were expecting him, and it's their duty to make sure he's okay! They can't just let a kid not turn up.

Have you actually spoken to the nursery about starting later or are you just assuming you can't?

The best way to find CMs in your area is usually so ask other parents for a recommendation. We didn't know anyone to ask when our DC were small though.

You can also find CMs by asking your local council for a list.

You can see some local CMs on this website - put your postcode in to find ones near you. (I've selected "OFSTED registered as they need to be, to accept the funding - and also to be legal to look after your DC in their own home, I think).

www.childcare.co.uk/find/Childminders/Ofsted-Registered

That's website is pricy to sign up for though IIRC, so if you find one you like maybe see if you can also see them on the free council list before shelling out money to contact them through the website.

My advice about finding a CM is to go see a few of them and really trust your gut instinct. Worked for us, we found lovely CMs. (We've moved so I've done this a couple of times).

@CupidStunt2020

the nursery have a duty of care

More buzzwords! What does that actually mean though, in context? What is there "duty of care" here? It doesn't actually MEAN anything when you just throw it out there.....

“Everyone working with children has a 'duty of care' to keep children safe and protect them from harm. This means that all adults have a duty to report child protection or welfare concerns to Children's Services or the police”

It is disruptive in any setting when someone is perpetually late

Not if they're set up to be flexible, which most nurseries are IME.

and it's their duty to make sure he's okay! They can't just let a kid not turn up

It's NOT their duty to make sure he's ok, and they can just let a kid not turn up, as he doesn't need to be there! OP can just not bring him, any time she likes.

WTF are you people banging on about?

@CupidStunt2020

and it's their duty to make sure he's okay! They can't just let a kid not turn up

It's NOT their duty to make sure he's ok, and they can just let a kid not turn up, as he doesn't need to be there! OP can just not bring him, any time she likes.

WTF are you people banging on about?

But the OP has chosen to take her DS there, creating a duty of care for the staff. A private nursery is a private business, so if anyone doesn’t like the terms of business they don’t have to use it.

Midnight isn't late,I don't know why this should interfere with getting your dc there on time.especially on a Tuesday when you hadn't worked the night before

Have you missed the part where I said I have insomnia? If I go to bed at 12 I'm lucky if I'm able to sleep before 3, that sleep is unsettled, and then I have to get up at 7am regardless of whether I've slept well or at all.

I'm the type of person who needs a solid 6-7 hours to feel rested and I'm not alone in that regard.

I'm exhausted for the rest of the day and still have to go and do the food shopping, housework etc then walk another 1.8 miles going to pick him up later. It's torture.

I'm not blaming the nursery for my medical problems, I'm just saying that them being so strict with him starting at 9am is making my life alot harder.

“Everyone working with children has a 'duty of care' to keep children safe and protect them from harm. This means that all adults have a duty to report child protection or welfare concerns to Children's Services or the police”

Copying from the leaflets now? I said context, not more guff. In this context, there is no harm indicated to OP's child. Not always arriving at nursery when they want you to has no welfare implications. So again, in this context, WTF are you talking about?

@CupidStunt2020

and it's their duty to make sure he's okay! They can't just let a kid not turn up

It's NOT their duty to make sure he's ok, and they can just let a kid not turn up, as he doesn't need to be there! OP can just not bring him, any time she likes.

WTF are you people banging on about?

you are wrong. do you not have dc ?

But the OP has chosen to take her DS there, creating a duty of care for the staff
Nope. Their duty of care is to look after him properly while he is with them. They have no business when he is not, unless there are actual welfare concerns. There aren't.

This really surprises me, and worries me too. I would be devastated if safeguarding concerns were raised and referred for something like this. I could do without that, more stress.

Of course it’s a safeguarding concern, because if you can’t even get your child to nursery on time then you aren’t coping, and you know you aren’t coping because you’re working late and unable to sleep properly.

That in turn has consequences on your children, as it clearly is doing. So they have a duty of care to make sure your children are being properly looked after.

@CupidStunt2020

stop derailing and being argumentative for the sake of it! it is unhelpful to the op

@CupidStunt2020

“Everyone working with children has a 'duty of care' to keep children safe and protect them from harm. This means that all adults have a duty to report child protection or welfare concerns to Children's Services or the police”

Copying from the leaflets now? I said context, not more guff. In this context, there is no harm indicated to OP's child. Not always arriving at nursery when they want you to has no welfare implications. So again, in this context, WTF are you talking about?

It can have welfare implications though. It could be an indicator of a wider picture.

Yes, I copied that definition from the first google result as you seemed unable to find a simple definition of a term which is common in a certain sector. I’m sure there are terms which are used in your sector that I wouldn’t know and would have to google too.

you are wrong.do you not have dc

I do. And they go to nursery, when I decide to bring, at a time that suits me. And the nursery has never called me and asked me why I'm late, because it is none of their business. This is how things work in the real world.

Some of you are out of your tiny minds. Calling SS when a 2 year old misses circle time, you should be prosecuted for wasting their time!!

stop derailing and being argumentative for the sake of it! it is unhelpful to the op

Unhelpful to th OP is implying that her nursery will report her to social services

I do intend to speak to them about it. It has only come to a head today as I've had a terrible nights rest and concluded that it's not tenable for me to continue like this.

I don't know how flexible they are prepared to be but I'm going to ask for changes.

@Crunchycadbury Good luck, OP, hopefully they will be able to be flexible and support you once they are more aware of the situation or if they aren’t then you’ll be able to explore some other options suggested on this thread (eg childminder, different nursery or keeping him home with you for a period of time while you reassess things). Take care