Sick of being told I'm black

[Notjustblackandwhite]

Just this really. On Friday a white friend asked me what I thought of racism in the UK as a black person. I'm mixed race, I'm not black. My mum is white and my father is black Brazilian, but it doesn't seem to matter and I frequently get called black ''for ease'', by white people.

I have nothing against the ''black'' part of my heritage, but I'm at most one or two shades darker than Meghan Markle, and I feel as though an identity is being forced upon me, similarly to how your name might get changed because x and y have decided that your name is too "ethnic" to pronounce. I'm getting more and more worked up over this, and recently someone decided to tell me that I was being racist for being dismissive of being black.

AIBU to think that is really grating and makes me want to punch people sometimes (metaphorically of course)?

@Iflyaway

I never understood why for example Obama was lauded for being the first black president when he is actually mixed race.

Yes, this pisses me off too. I have a child with an African dad.

It's the Jim Crow laws. One drop and you're black. Ridiculous I know.

It's not only about this.

Part of it is that in the Americas, most black people are in fact mixed race, they have both European and African ancestors. If they were going to exist as a defined class, which was the point of racialising them, they had to be considered black even though they were known to also have white ancestors. So the sense of the community was mainly focused on African ancestry.

But also back in the 80s and even the early 90s there was something of a movement to "reclaim" the history of Africans, and help kids of African heritage - black kids - see that their black ancestors also had done great things, it wasn't all dusty old white men. This was around the time when schools in some places started having black history month or teaching African-American history and things.

A lot of people involved felt that by showing that there were all kinds of famous/important/significant people who had some African heritage or connection to African innovations etc, kids would see that their heritage was as worthy of being proud of as any other, and it would help them aspire to do big things themselves. White people were actually encouraged to identify any black ancestry (or native, etc) as part of that, in a way that many now might thing was mild appropriation. (Think Elizabeth Warren.)

It was kind of a strange moment, instead of teaching real African history there was a lot of weird emphasis on trying to show things like Cleopatra was a black woman, or - the most bizarre one I heard, in school! - was that Aristotle stole his ideas from books he read in the Great Library of Alexandria, which of course was in Africa and therefore contained books written by black people.

Now the emphasis is different since identity politics as become the main narrative, communities are being defined in terms of oppressed identities and oppressor identities. "Mixed" doesn't fit that well.

Obama says he is black so leave it to that. maybe it’s because some of you don’t like to believe a black person can be successful so you all insist that he need to point out that he is white too. Who cares what he label himself?

And it is true a lot of black Americans have mixed ethnicity. When I did my dna test, I found a lot of 2nd 3rd cousins who are black and I can see they are mixed like Obama yet their parents and grandparents are black too (they share their family tree too with me)

@Blueberries0112

Obama says he is black so leave it to that. maybe it’s because some of you don’t like to believe a black person can be successful so you all insist that he need to point out that he is white too. Who cares what he label himself?

This is my problem with a lot of people posting here. There is so much anti-black or subtly racist commentary in the guise of “well mixed people should acknowledge both sides.” But the same posters are saying Obama or Meghan aren’t “properly black.” Why because they’re high profile and fairer skinned?

I don’t see people saying Naomi Osaka can’t call herself black. Is it because she’s darker skinned?

I completely agree with those saying Meghan Markle looks white with a tan.

I bet loads of us don't know our true heritage, we might have a bit of Norse, Arabic, french whatever. I don't think it matters we should all be treat with respect. That's the problem with labels, people get attached to labels then offended if people use the wrong label.

Let's live and let live people!

This is my problem with a lot of people posting here. There is so much anti-black or subtly racist commentary in the guise of “well mixed people should acknowledge both sides.”

I have a problem with these sorts of comments. This the micro-aggression/fragility/opressed vs oppressor model which is dividing society. People have stretched the definitions of terms like racist such that they no longer have much meaning beyond the fact that the reader felt offended thus the writer must be a racist, despite no evidence demonstrating the fact that racist ideas were being expounded.

I would never call Megan Markle black because she never has identified herself as black. She has listed her race as "Ambiguous" in her resume and has never highlighted that aspect of her ethnicity.

I would definitely call Obama black even as he is mixed race because that is how he identifies himself.

@turnitonagain

I havent seen a single racist post on here.

People not saying exactly what you want them to say isnt racism.

@Mominatrix

This is my problem with a lot of people posting here. There is so much anti-black or subtly racist commentary in the guise of “well mixed people should acknowledge both sides.”

I have a problem with these sorts of comments. This the micro-aggression/fragility/opressed vs oppressor model which is dividing society. People have stretched the definitions of terms like racist such that they no longer have much meaning beyond the fact that the reader felt offended thus the writer must be a racist, despite no evidence demonstrating the fact that racist ideas were being expounded.

I have a problem with people saying that black women - I notice it’s been women mentioned more than people or men - do not like mixed race people or exclude them. When someone above said she “had receipts” to prove that black women hate Halle Berry and other celebs for being mixed she never produced them.

I have a problem with people saying that white heritage is being denied if mixed eace people identify as black. When “whiteness” as a construct was created and used as a weapon against all people of mixed heritage for centuries.

The gist of many in this thread is essentially that mixed people are being oppressed by black people. As if this is actually an issue or as if black people - particularly women! - have the amount of power in British society to oppress anyone systematically.

The trope of the “tragic mulatto” (term not mine) goes back a long way and blaming black people for the struggles mixed people face is nothing short of farcical.

It’s white society that decides if you’re dark you’re an Other. In black societies there have always been lighter skinned people and a range of shades accepted with no issue. Ask any Caribbean or African immigrant, most of them can show you a family picture to prove this quite easily.

@Mominatrix

This is my problem with a lot of people posting here. There is so much anti-black or subtly racist commentary in the guise of “well mixed people should acknowledge both sides.”

I have a problem with these sorts of comments. This the micro-aggression/fragility/opressed vs oppressor model which is dividing society. People have stretched the definitions of terms like racist such that they no longer have much meaning beyond the fact that the reader felt offended thus the writer must be a racist, despite no evidence demonstrating the fact that racist ideas were being expounded.

Do you have anyone who labeled themselves black in the top government system in your country ? Just curious.

I still wonder if people how much people will be bothered if the next in line to be king or queen married someone who is black and have mixed children who decided marry people who are black too.

Do you have anyone who labeled themselves black in the top government system in your country ? Just curious.

Many. I'm American.

In terms of your second comment - pure conjecture and no proof. Liechtenstein has a person of colour in their direct line of succession and there is no discomfort there.

Prince Alfons

I would never call Megan Markle black because she never has identified herself as black

Fair enough but when she married Henry the media were broadly referring to her as the first black royal/princess.

I have a problem with people saying that black women - I notice it’s been women mentioned more than people or men - do not like mixed race people or exclude them

That is their (our) lived experience. Who are you to tell them they are wrong? mixed race people can be excluded by both/all sides of their heritage. If you have a problem with women talking about their own experiences, its your problem, not theirs.

@turnitonagain Well, I'm not surprised women are mentioned more often than men. Most posters on here, me included, are women. I am not a man and, despite having male friends, identify more with women when it comes to questions of identity.

I haven't really heard anybody say that 'black women are racist towards mixed women' in those terms, but to completely deny that not everyone in the black community is as welcoming of mixed race individuals as one might think is rather rude. This definitely happens, and it has happened to me.

I mentioned Meghan because she, like me, is a light-skinned woman of mixed heritage who has struggled to define her racial identity, for reasons both personal and societal. That's it. I think this is an issue that can get more pronounced the less you look like what society thinks a "black woman" looks like or should look like. It's not about thinking you are superior because you are lighter, or wanting to be white. It's about confusion and a lack of belonging.

This can be both triggered by someone deciding you don't fit in directly, or through imagery and discourse.

Barack Obama's experience and upbringing are different from mine. I don't like it when someone says he's not black, because he is. He feels that kinship and shared history. I think of him as black. I consider myself a person of colour, but I can't identify with the cultural aspect of what it means to be black. Not because I don't want to, but because it doesn't match my upbringing and experiences. I simply do not feel black, at least not fully.

Where I do feel kinship is on the issue of hair. I have a mixture of textures, but the dominant one is 4C, and that is simply considered a flaw in a lot of places. I love my hair, I want to celebrate my hair, and I feel close to those with similar issues and experiences. But you can't tell me that there's no difference in the way people see and treat me in terms of skin colour and how they see Lupita Nyong'o. If I claimed that my experiences where on par with hers (and that is what matters here as my blackness is often framed as being relevant to conversations about experiencing racism with white people) it would be in my opinion extremely insensitive and not representative at all. In addition it just feels like putting me into a box when it suits, instead of treating me like an individual. I don't always get called black; like Meghan, people only do so when it fits their narrative.

If a black woman came up to me and said "you are black too, like me", I'm not going to say "uhm, you're wrong, I'm mixed race duh," but that is not what's happening here. That's why I'm sick of it.

@BubblyBarbara they did, because it suited their narrative. That's exactly what I mean. Meghan is black when it can be used to show how super woke and progressive we all are.

When that doesn't suit the story, she suddenly goes back to being mixed-race or even white. Her own feelings regarding her identity are completely irrelevant, it's all about others and what they want.

If I (hypothetically) said during one of these diversity meetings that I haven't really experienced racism based on my skin colour, I'll can tell you right now what my white colleagues would most likely say, based on previous experience:

"Oh, but to be fair, you're not really black though."

That is their (our) lived experience. Who are you to tell them they are wrong? mixed race people can be excluded by both/all sides of their heritage. If you have a problem with women talking about their own experiences, its your problem, not theirs.

I’ve not said anyone’s lived experiences aren’t real. But they aren’t data or evidence of a “backlash.” Maybe those black women were just nasty? Or maybe they used race as the focus of bullying because they knew it was a sensitive area? Or maybe they were taking their own insecurities about how Western society views black skin and features out on what they thought was an easy target?

Black women aren’t a monolith. And this entire thread is mixed people saying they don’t want to be put into boxes. But it’s OK to do it for the group of people who suffer the most from racism and sexism in Western culture? How is that helping anyone?

I personally do not see the black women I know hating mixed race people, because mixed race people are part of our family! These children come from somewhere, many of them have black mothers too.

I haven't really heard anybody say that 'black women are racist towards mixed women' in those terms, but to completely deny that not everyone in the black community is as welcoming of mixed race individuals as one might think is rather rude. This definitely happens, and it has happened to me.

I don’t deny it happens. It certainly does. But at least in the UK I see almost equally black men/white women and black women/white men couples these days so it’s not coming from the women’s side alone.

I actually think a huge part of the not feeling welcome you describe is when the black parent is not in the picture, so the mixed child feels alienated from that side of their heritage. Especially if the white parent doesn’t then foster pride in their background either because they don’t want to or due to the relationship breakdown they can’t.

If a black woman came up to me and said "you are black too, like me", I'm not going to say "uhm, you're wrong, I'm mixed race duh," but that is not what's happening here.

It did seem like you meant this actually

When that doesn't suit the story, she suddenly goes back to being mixed-race or even white. Her own feelings regarding her identity are completely irrelevant, it's all about others and what they want.

This is exactly what people are continually doing with ex-President Obama. Funny thing most of them are white.

As a PP pointed out black people's families have many shades. In fact I have black friends who are the same skin tone as you OP. Their parents and grandparents are various shades and they all regard themselves as black. Some of them have actually been called "mixed race" by white people - including in front of me - and depending on the circumstances is how they deal with it.

I would never call Megan Markle black because she never has identified herself as black. She has listed her race as "Ambiguous" in her resume and has never highlighted that aspect of her ethnicity.

She has described herself as a woman of color. And I believe the "ethnically ambiguous" description was from a quotation of hers about why she had difficulty getting jobs at first. I don't think it was on her acting resume.

@turnitonagain

I haven't really heard anybody say that 'black women are racist towards mixed women' in those terms, but to completely deny that not everyone in the black community is as welcoming of mixed race individuals as one might think is rather rude. This definitely happens, and it has happened to me.

I don’t deny it happens. It certainly does. But at least in the UK I see almost equally black men/white women and black women/white men couples these days so it’s not coming from the women’s side alone.

I actually think a huge part of the not feeling welcome you describe is when the black parent is not in the picture, so the mixed child feels alienated from that side of their heritage. Especially if the white parent doesn’t then foster pride in their background either because they don’t want to or due to the relationship breakdown they can’t.

If a black woman came up to me and said "you are black too, like me", I'm not going to say "uhm, you're wrong, I'm mixed race duh," but that is not what's happening here.

It did seem like you meant this actually

I mind because the way it's being said is not merely about what I look like or who my parents are, and it's being turned into politics. I never said it was about feeling "eew" about my non-white heritage.

Also, I can't speak for others, but the scenario you describe of alienation due to an absentee black parent does not apply to me. My parents are married and my dad and his side of the family are very much in my life.

That might be why, when a previous poster mentioned getting Okra from the store, my stomach did a double take, because Okra is the devil incarnate and should be banned from appearing anywhere near an edible plate of food. Cassava however, is a different story.

Okra is god's own food, you heathen.

I’ve not said anyone’s lived experiences aren’t real. But they aren’t data or evidence of a “backlash.” Maybe those black women were just nasty

You said you had a problem with people saying it, even though they experience it. So you think they're real but you think people should shut up, because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I don't know why women who are fully what I am half are nasty about it (not all, but enough), but they are. Frankly, I don't care why. It's not about the macro when we're talking about ourselves. Banging on abuot structural inequality doesn't help someone who's actually suffering.

I’ll say again my comments were about generalisations that black women en masse have issues with mixed race people. Which were made by more than one poster. I reiterate where did these mixed race people come from if not from black women - either mothers or grandmothers - it just doesn’t make sense.

I still think a lot of black women do, that’s my experience anyway. You can’t tell people they are wrong. And no it doesn’t make sense but tell that to them rather than to those of us who have experienced it.