Sick of being told I'm black

[Notjustblackandwhite]

Just this really. On Friday a white friend asked me what I thought of racism in the UK as a black person. I'm mixed race, I'm not black. My mum is white and my father is black Brazilian, but it doesn't seem to matter and I frequently get called black ''for ease'', by white people.

I have nothing against the ''black'' part of my heritage, but I'm at most one or two shades darker than Meghan Markle, and I feel as though an identity is being forced upon me, similarly to how your name might get changed because x and y have decided that your name is too "ethnic" to pronounce. I'm getting more and more worked up over this, and recently someone decided to tell me that I was being racist for being dismissive of being black.

AIBU to think that is really grating and makes me want to punch people sometimes (metaphorically of course)?

LloydColeandtheCoconuts

My children are 1/4 white (I am 1/2 white 1/2 st lucian, their dad is Jamaican) I call them mixed race and that’s how they refer to themselves, sometimes I do wonder if I should be referring to them as black purely because they are only 1/4 white but they don’t look black they look typically mixed race. I guess I will leave that up to them for when they are older.

@LloydColeandtheCoconuts I get what you are saying, however my mixed race DC consider themselves to be mixed race because that’s what they are. Telling them to identify as just black wouldn’t go down well because they’d see that as denying their father’s side. Just because others might see them as black isn’t a issue, they know who they are. I’m happy that they don’t have a complex about this to be honest. They’ve grown up surrounded by both sides of their family so it wasn’t an issue in our house. They have white, black and mixed race grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins and friends.

I wonder if a discomfort around being described as black, when someone’s mixed race, might be about an implied rejection by white society-it’s an ‘othering’ from the cultural social group that holds the power and is seen as the default ‘norm’?

@MrsWooster The implied rejection is not just on the white side. In my experience, being "black" has become a political and cultural thing and has nothing to do with skin colour to one group, whilst at the same time being used as a derogatory term by another group. People of Asian descent aren't called "yellow" or "brown" in common speech, so why are we referring to others with the terms "black" and "white"?

I am neither colour, yet I'm told that I have to pick one, and that one better be black otherwise I am

a) Wrong (according to some white people), or;

b) Ashamed of my "blackness" and brainwashed by the white establishment (according to some black people).

Ok cool, my skin colour is brown, so that is how this works and then that's all it's about right? Wrong! Why do you straighten your hair, you are not embracing your heritage? Why are you leaving your hair in an afro, are you trying to prove a point? Why didn't you go to the latest BLM protest? Don't you care about your own people? How come you need to apply sunscreen? Aren't you really white for a black person? As a black person, surely you feel x about y?

I don't want to be questioned constantly about my life choices based on other people's assumptions on what it means to be a black woman. I think I used to mind being referred to as black less, before George Floyd. Ever since that event my individuality has slowly been eroded in favour of some kind of political point scoring collective. I'm sick of it.

my individuality has slowly been eroded in favour of some kind of political point scoring collective. I'm sick of it

(Missed quotation marks, sorry)

I'd be lying if I said I understood (I'm roughly in Casper territory over here) but I can imagine how incredibly frustrating it must be to be informed what opinions you must hold, actions you must take and ways you must personally groom (!) based on the colour of your skin and what it must "mean" of you don't.

I thought leaving all those sort of assumptions and requirements behind was sort of the point...

Sorry you're having a rubbish time at the hands of people who no doubt consider themselves to be being Very Helpful.

Maybe language needs to evolve as times evolve, and maybe the terms asian, white, black no longer make sense considering we are moving towards more people being mixed.

Even in white people, there are nuances. Theres a world of difference in someone who looks Scandinavian and someone who looks Turkish. Also there are nuances in how those looks are subconsciously interpreted. As an aside what about Jewish people - I see them as white but do they see themselves as white?

Maybe in the not so distant future the binary terms we use now will come to seem pretty old fashioned, and we should be looking at developing a new kind of terminology so people can describe themselves in a way that feels right. For example someone who has an Asian parent and a black parent, or somebody who has four different ethnicities from their parents - each could have a different way of being said.

I am white but I can definitely imagine that being mixed could feel frustrating with respect to how people respond to you - forcing identities on you, or denying you them, depending on the person.

This is something I found that is interesting:
"More recently such categorization has been noted in theCaribbean. It is reported that skin tones play an important role in defining howBarbadiansview one another, and they use terms such as "brown skin, light skin, fair skin, high brown, red, and mulatto".[19]An assessment of racism inTrinidadnotes people often being described by their skin tone, with the gradations being "HIGH RED – part White, part Black but ‘clearer’ than Brown-skin: HIGH BROWN – More white than Black, light skinned: DOUGLA –part Indian and part Black: LIGHT SKINNED, or CLEAR SKINNED Some Black, but more White: TRINI WHITE – Perhaps not all White, behaves like others but skin White".[20]"

“Asian descent aren't called "yellow" or "brown" in common speech”

It used to be in the U.S. but it is racist to call them that. And red for native Americans (hence Washington redskin football teams - they are finally going to change their name)

A couple of 'shades darker ' than Meghan? There is something off about this post

Next time , just say you are between two (or more) world. I do because I am not exactly deaf but I am not hearing either (I have a severe to profound hearing loss which means I my old analog hearing aids was able to bring my hearing level to a moderate hearing loss level but I am deaf without them)

Gosh it gets so very boring, all this your black/mixed/white/racist stuff. Do people ever focus on anything else these days apart from being gender confused ?????? Bring back Brexit!!!

I don't want to be questioned constantly about my life choices based on other people's assumptions on what it means to be a black woman. I think I used to mind being referred to as black less, before George Floyd. Ever since that event my individuality has slowly been eroded in favour of some kind of political point scoring collective. I'm sick of it.

Is the frustration really about your friends/people you know, though?

It seems to me it's with the modern anti-racism movement, that is telling them that in order to avoid being a racist, they should think about people in that collective way.

I know it probably seems kind of unfair to need to go into it, but it might be very worthwhile for you to say to them what you've said here. I bet they'd understand a lot better why you don't want to accept the label "black" for one thing, and it would give them some food for thought bout the real message of that whole movement.

Where i lived in the states mixed raced people described themselves as black, or often half black' if black/white parents. Obama and meghan markle etc describe themselves that way too and many people refer to them as black. As a white person, i often feel like we no matter what terms
is said to be correct, someone will say othwrwise. I think this has a part in why race isn't discussed much or avoided. People are scared to offend and has serious consequences etc at work if done so

"But she's not black. Shes mixed race."

I said this about Barack Obama once and everyone started shouting at me.

I used to know a guy who had a white mum and black Jamaican dad. He described himself as White Caribbean. He'd never really known his dad and didn't see himself as part of that culture at all.

"People of Asian descent aren't called "yellow" or "brown" in common speech"

Yellow is no longer PC, but I hear 'brown' pretty often including by people describing themselves.

I get you.
I'm mixed, white and Asian but I'm seen as just Asian. My son who is only 1/4 white, looks whiter than me and is labelled mixed..I guess I was just a tad too dark

@Gwenhwyfar when someone self-identifies, find society treats them as they self-identify, marries a black woman and has children who look how they self-identify then you are rude calling them something else.

OP stop being polite - you need to speak up with your "friends" about your identity, and as with your colleagues stop taking shit from them about race matters.

My son describes himself (and his best friend) as "brown". That came from him not me, and is actually quite an accurate description of their skin tone. He is still young though, so I don't know how he will feel growing up. As the white parent I wouldnt feel rejected if he described himself as black when he was older, or want him to think he had to identify a certain way to please me. But at the same time I don't want him to feel he has to identify as black or come under the same pressure as the OP.
The area we live in and the school he goes to are extremely mixed (deliberate choice from us) with lots of different ethnicities and lots of mixed race children as well. So I'm hoping that makes it easier but who knows.

Also...
I don't want to @ specific people - because I imagine that could be annoying. But a lot of people have posted about finding it difficult growing up mixed race - either because they were accused of not being black/white enough or of rejecting their culture etc etc. Are there any things that would have helped when they were younger particularly things there parents could have done differently... I'm having mild mum-panic at the moment...

I understand. I'm half white (but not of English descent) and half Caribbean (but of Indian not African descent). I'm not white, I'm not black, I'm not Asian, I'm not Indian, I'm not the standard type of Caribbean as not black or African descent. I am both British and English, as well as a Londoner, despite having no actual genetics related to these places. I am very definitely mixed something, though not sure I like the term race as I don't think it's very helpful.

I'm visibly not white but culturally pretty much standard middle class white West London. Apart from the childhood monthly trips to Shepherds Bush Market to lay in supplies of cassareep, okra, cassava and mangoes, I am not sure my upbringing had very much different in it from my white peers as it was largely driven by my white mother (who was of Irish descent which added a slightly different cultural layer in).

I don't like people categorising me. I am not sure I can categorise myself particularly helpfully, even after approx half a century, and am sure that as time goes on there will be more and more who have lots of different cultural layers in their lives. Hopefully at some point we can stop putting people into boxes unless they have chosen those boxes for themselves.

I'm visibly not white but culturally pretty much standard middle class white West London. Apart from the childhood monthly trips to Shepherds Bush Market to lay in supplies of cassareep, okra, cassava and mangoes, I am not sure my upbringing had very much different in it from my white peers as it was largely driven by my white mother (who was of Irish descent which added a slightly different cultural layer in).

My fully West African cousins from West London have a very similar upbringing. Their culture as British Londoners has no bearing on their race or racial identity though.

I never understood why for example Obama was lauded for being the first black president when he is actually mixed race.

Yes, this pisses me off too. I have a child with an African dad.

It's the Jim Crow laws. One drop and you're black. Ridiculous I know.

I understand many People with a mixed heritage prefer to identify as black

Not my experience at all. Maybe in USA, certainly not in Europe. I have a biracial son, loads of mixed friends, they don't see themselves as black at all even if one parent is. (We live in EU). In fact, it doesn't even concern them, putting a label on themselves. They just are who they are.