Sick of being told I'm black

[Notjustblackandwhite]

Just this really. On Friday a white friend asked me what I thought of racism in the UK as a black person. I'm mixed race, I'm not black. My mum is white and my father is black Brazilian, but it doesn't seem to matter and I frequently get called black ''for ease'', by white people.

I have nothing against the ''black'' part of my heritage, but I'm at most one or two shades darker than Meghan Markle, and I feel as though an identity is being forced upon me, similarly to how your name might get changed because x and y have decided that your name is too "ethnic" to pronounce. I'm getting more and more worked up over this, and recently someone decided to tell me that I was being racist for being dismissive of being black.

AIBU to think that is really grating and makes me want to punch people sometimes (metaphorically of course)?

Is anyone else confused about what exactly “black” means racially? I don’t mean to be glib, but I have a friend who is Moroccan (not mixed French Morrocan, but both sides Morrocan) whose colouring is similar to Melanie Sykes - is she Black? She is African. I have Egyptian friends who have blond hair and green eyes -nth et are African, but are they black? What is black if it does not refer to African heritage?

Is it then the skin tone one has? Then these two African (note, both are not Euro African but many many generations African) are not black.

What does it mean?

You have lovely legs!

In 1796, Scots owned nearly 30 per cent of the estates in Jamaica and by 1817, a staggering 32 per cent of the slaves. my husband was really surprised how many black Americans shared his Scottish surname but then we realised that sadly they would have been given the name by the plantation owner.

To the posters asking why do people in the US with a mixed race heritage often identify as black, it’s really a legacy of slavery. If they’re from a background where some distant ancestors are European, but only because of rape by slave owners, those people usually (and proudly) only acknowledge their black heritage. Steph Curry, for example, is a famous basketball player who I (as a Brit) would have assumed was biracial, but he identifies as black, because there are no immediate white ancestors in his background, so we can only assume his lighter skin is that way because of an appalling family history.

@Mominatrix
I don't see north Africans as black or white 🤔

Also to me I see Latinos as being white even though they are Hispanic in culture 🤷‍♀️

@Lweji I'm not dim but you are as fucking rude as the "friend" the OP is complaining about.

These identity things are complicated.

As PPs have said, the legacy of slavery (which was not confined to the USA by any means) feeds into how people feel.

In the UK we just had all that awful scandal with the 'windrush generation'.

We said come here! We need help.
We said, you will be citizens.
Decades later. The only proof lots of people had was destroyed by the home office. And people were deported.

This stuff is not trivial. Racism is not trivial.

People who are 'different' get shit wherever they live.

In my area there's a large Jewish population. Swastikas get painted on the high streets, on the bus stops.

Not trivial. Just as an example of how we are not a wholly tolerant society.

As an individual. Getting approached as a is bollocks. And IME never comes from a good place. I have said throughout the thread that it's bang out of order and suggested some things to say back.

It's different but I used to have, when Weinstein happened, men at work rushing up at the coffee machine keen to talk about rape. How the fuck is that appropriate.

The idea that people should be a. happy to and b. on hand to 'debate' etc whatever the thing is, is bollocks.

Ha you know what.

How about we all turn it around.

OP. When these white people approach, having spotted a person who surely have some views. Say. Well. Interesting. The police officers who killed George Floyd were white. How do you feel about that.

Turn it around on them.

With too much stuff the focus is on the group that gets the shit.

Make them feel uncomfortable. You're part of the group giving the shit. How do you feel? How can it be solved?

It is tricky. Some people who are very light skinned mixed face prefer to be referred to as black. Some don't. Personally I don't see why anyone needs to even mention it. I doubt it's for ease just thats it's so personal - it's not like either are insults (like telling a bigger person they are fat for example).

YANBU but it's not like there's a standard phrase - everyone has different preferences.

Also haven't RTFT so my above comment was only replying to the first post. But frankly I don't see why it needs to be mentioned. It's a stupid fucking thing to say. Either they are trying to wind you up or they are thick.

I would just look at them incredulously and reply with a crisp 'What!?!' ( a very very posh friend of mine once told me his mother told him 'don't say pardon say what'). Like I couldn't quite believe what they were saying - so they had to explain why they were asking such an utterly moronic question.

And then probably shrug and say I wasn't the spokesperson for everyone who wasnt white 🙄

If it makes you feel any better people say stupid things to everyone. It's often not a race thing. It's a stupid thing.

Complicated.

www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/12/ta-nehisi-coates-obama-transcript-iii/511475/

I’m mixed race and class myself as mixed race as I am 50% white & 50% black.
Lots of people use MM as an example of a light mixed race person but the actress Rashida Jones is mixed race - daughter of Quincy Jones, but most people think at first she is white, unless you know who her dad is.
Mixed race comes under a broad spectrum of colour.
You say that you are re iterating to people you know well that you are mixed race and those people are dismissing you and calling you black anyway.
I think you may need to reassess these people in your life as you shouldn’t have to say at all, but if you had said it once that you are mixed race then it should be accepted - especially as it is fact.

Not read the whole thread but want to agree with Goosefoot. I'm black, but probably the wrong sort of black with the wrong sort of opinions and life experience. I find the whole "speaking for my race" tiresome. It is fundamentally rude to drag other people into your virtue signalling drama. Don't need an ally, not a fluffer. Thanks.

I agree it's tiresom and I'm not being pigenholed - at least not that sort of pigenholed.

That being said - I think a lot of these people are having kind of a hard time. Look at the response people get if they challenge the BLM ideas about systemic racism for example. And yet if you believe in what they say, anyone who has African heritage is a "black life" because they will be treated as such by the system that oppresses them.

So this very strong cultural force is telling them the one thing they need to do to be ok people is atone for the cultural colonialism of their ancestors by recognising their role in anti-black racism, with this very broad definition of being black. And the very strong implication being made that all the people defined as black agree with it all.

I feel like a lot of them really need permission to question that whole narrative, because they've been strongly impressed with the idea that their own ideas are not worth anything and they might as well not bother even thinking about it.

As an individual. Getting approached as a is bollocks. And IME never comes from a good place. I have said throughout the thread that it's bang out of order and suggested some things to say back.

But how can that work under identity politics?

@GoldfishParade how is she white?

That's why Meghan Markle and Barack Obama both identify as black, whereas by British standards they would be considered mixed race. Now that a lot of discourse on racism is coming from America, people are also starting to absorb the US racial definitions

This is part of the problem in the UK imv. We have racism in the UK but it is not the same as the racism in the USA, and our police aren't armed. I don't think the outcome would have been the same for George Floyd if the police had not been armed. He couldn't fight back if it meant being shot.
The police shot 3 people in the UK in 2018, 14 were shot in France and 100 injured, There were 996 in the USA. By population the US has 5 times our population (wow, is that correct? UK 60mill, US 300mill- jeesh that is a lot of killings).
Black Americans were formerly slaves mainly.
Black British were former slaves in colonies or the UK, or have moved from trouble spots in eg N Africa, asylum seekers from many countries, or brought here to work in unpopular roles - Windrush, doctors nurses footballers coming here to work. I think that, especially as the young are much more inclusive, we will have reduced racism in Britain a lot in the next decade. But not if we continue to fight US battles of BLM because I don't see that being solved for a long time, if ever, as long as there are the vast number of firearms in the US.
So we should clarify where we are talking about when we discuss race.

Here's an example of how Hispanic and Latino are usually used interchangeably.

I hear you op. .y kids are half white English and have Turkish/Kurdish. Turkish people call them Turkish English people call them English. But they all say well no I'm mixed.... It annoys them too especially as they look both depending on their facial expressions.

From what I hear from some sources, that's the biggest issue with mixed race - being perceived as being outside both sides of their heritage. I can't imagine what that feels like, to not be fully accepted as 'one of us' by both sides of your extended family.
This is my experience of being mixed race, you're excluded by both of your parents' races. With my extended family I was the "white cousin" yet when some classmates saw me outside of school with my mother (whose racial origin is South Asian) they decide to subject me to racist bullying and I ended up having to change classes. In the US there is a growing backlash from black women against mixed race women who they accuse of getting roles and positions that should only go to black women. Halle Berry is a case in point for being subject to bullying for having a white parent yet she is typically perceived as black. Then she gets told she shouldn't take a role intended for a black woman because she's mixed. Being mixed race often means experiencing more discrimination, not less. I will always regard myself as mixed race because I take pride in both sides of my heritage. And ultimately I'm not allowed by society to be anything else.

@StuntNun

From what I hear from some sources, that's the biggest issue with mixed race - being perceived as being outside both sides of their heritage. I can't imagine what that feels like, to not be fully accepted as 'one of us' by both sides of your extended family. This is my experience of being mixed race, you're excluded by both of your parents' races. With my extended family I was the "white cousin" yet when some classmates saw me outside of school with my mother (whose racial origin is South Asian) they decide to subject me to racist bullying and I ended up having to change classes. In the US there is a growing backlash from black women against mixed race women who they accuse of getting roles and positions that should only go to black women. Halle Berry is a case in point for being subject to bullying for having a white parent yet she is typically perceived as black. Then she gets told she shouldn't take a role intended for a black woman because she's mixed. Being mixed race often means experiencing more discrimination, not less. I will always regard myself as mixed race because I take pride in both sides of my heritage. And ultimately I'm not allowed by society to be anything else.

Utter rubbish - the black community was raving when the actress Zendaya won an Emmy award just a few weeks ago. She is very light skinned. Please don’t speak on things you don’t know about. The trope of bitter black women is tired.

@turnitonagain I'm doing the school run now but I can look for receipts later.

Feel free. If you can show it’s a “backlash” and not a few randoms on Twitter I’ll be mightily impressed. I guess all the black women backing Kamala Harris don’t exist either.

You’re a British half Asian woman, please don’t go there accusing black women of hating all light skinned women. It’s disgusting.

@Lardlizard

Dizzy

Thanks for posting this. Another example of Piers getting it wrong. Dizzy did great

@turnitonagain

Feel free. If you can show it’s a “backlash” and not a few randoms on Twitter I’ll be mightily impressed. I guess all the black women backing Kamala Harris don’t exist either.

You’re a British half Asian woman, please don’t go there accusing black women of hating all light skinned women. It’s disgusting.

Yes turn 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿

My kids are mixed race and they have been embraced by both sides of the family. Why? Because they are part of the family. My oldest is only 6 but he's curious and very proud of where's he from. I pray that continues.

please don’t go there accusing black women of hating all light skinned women.
I did no such thing. I was talking about some black women feeling that roles they regard as for black actresses shouldn't go to mixed race actresses. That doesn't imply all black women feel that way. You're trying to read something into my words that wasn't there and then insulting me over something I didn't say.

I’ve got very mixed ethnicity, mainly Asian/African and I’m not dissimilar in colouring to Meghan. I’m mixed. End of. I hate it when people try and say, “yeah but you are white/asian/Mediterranean really“ and just pick what they’ve decided I am. For a start I may look “Mediterranean” or “Arabian” but I have no link to either. If you say I’m “white” then you are cutting off a whole side of my ethnicity. Ditto for if you say I’m just Black or Asian.

I was so upset when I kept seeing Black women commenting on TV debates and news items that Meghan shouldn’t refer to herself as “biracial” and that she is “black” because they were expecting her to deny half of her genetic makeup and it felt like people were judging me that way too.

I wonder if deep down inside it’s that people still aren’t comfortable with interracial relationships? So they choose what’s acceptable to them. For example, someone who is White British and Chinese always being told “you are white really” or “you are Chinese really” depending on the company they are in. That’s certainly my experience.

I'm mixed white/Latina and I get called white. A lot of mixed race people like to be considered black and get offended by being called mixed. A lot of mixed people like to be called mixed and get offended by being called black. People can't read your mind and your preference. Tell them "I'm not black, I'm mixed race". If you don't tell people then they simply can't know.