Sick of being told I'm black

[Notjustblackandwhite]

Just this really. On Friday a white friend asked me what I thought of racism in the UK as a black person. I'm mixed race, I'm not black. My mum is white and my father is black Brazilian, but it doesn't seem to matter and I frequently get called black ''for ease'', by white people.

I have nothing against the ''black'' part of my heritage, but I'm at most one or two shades darker than Meghan Markle, and I feel as though an identity is being forced upon me, similarly to how your name might get changed because x and y have decided that your name is too "ethnic" to pronounce. I'm getting more and more worked up over this, and recently someone decided to tell me that I was being racist for being dismissive of being black.

AIBU to think that is really grating and makes me want to punch people sometimes (metaphorically of course)?

Never mind the one drop rule, South Africa under apartheid had at least 4 classifications. Much better to say we are all humans and united, in my view.

Because he considers himself to be black, as do most of the world?

I do wonder if he does. He was raised within a white family, but will have needed to join the black community as he would be considered black by the US white community.

@lottiegarbanzo

What she's upset about seems to be people expecting her to act as a spokesperson for 'the blacks'.

I don't find it the least bit difficult to understand why she (and anyone) would find that annoying, upsetting and enraging.

The problem is the desire to enclose other people in neat boxes which define their otherness. Then to treat those boxes as objects.

Bog standard racism.

Exactly

I do wonder if he does

He refers to himself as black.

@CupidStunt2020

I do wonder if he does

He refers to himself as black.

Well, yes. But can you read his mind? I wouldn't make such definitive statements about what anyone considers themselves to be. Even if they publicly declare it.

I'm wondering if he wasn't pushed to be "black", rather than how he feels.

To be honest I understand how you feel. I understand your frustration and have experienced similar situations due to being mixed.

People will basically lable you and put you in the box that they feel you look most similar to. This caused some awkwardness for people as I genetically take after my dad but culturally fit in more with my other side of the family so am treated as 'the other' by both groups in the end. In the end I just gave up trying to be excepted by either.

Well, yes. But can you read his mind?

i don't need to read his mind, I've read his books. Isn't the main point of this thread that we should respect what other people refer to themselves as? Then do that, and do'n't think you know better than someone when they are talking about themselves.

No, you are not being unreasonable.

I am an American with a lot of mixed heritage in me and I am proud of them .

Unfortunately , for some people, being mixed doesn’t let them escape racism . It’s why Meghan says she is a person of color before she says she is white. And have been racist toward her like using the N-word

@Lweji are you always so fucking rude about how someone identifies their own race and ethnicity?

The entire point of this thread is that you should respect how people self-identify their own race and ethnicity regardless of who they are.

YANBU. It's lazy and racist for people to label you black when you're mixed race, especially when you identify yourself as mixed race and it's important to you. Not sure why people have to question it.

Exactly. The whole "how am I supposed to get it right" line which is trotted out usually by white people really winds me up. Listen to the individual and respect how they choose to identify. Then don't assume that what they tell you is the same for every POC you encounter.

I do wonder if he does.

He does. He wrote a book about it: "Dreams From My Father", subtitled "A Story of Race and Inheritance."

It’s all relative isn’t it? For example I know many people who are mixed race but would just say they’re black and then others that would say mixed. It’s difficult in today’s climate too with any amount of black being the defining race for many. I think (and I’ve no idea how this would go down) but maybe making people aware of your preference? Whether that’s by preempting or when it’s mentioned bring it up? A blanket rule for all isn’t going to work.

I agree with most of the comments but am not sure that we should respect self ID eg I am white in every sense. If I decided tomorrow to self declare as black (as at least 2 public figures have done - they are liars and rightly have been criticised) then that can be called out surely?

Mixed, as that is what I am

Our work diversity training says that we’re not allowed to describe people as “mixed race” as it is derogatory, and we are to use “bi-racial” instead.

So you could ask me to describe you as mixed race, but if I was at work I wouldn’t be able to, because my middle-ages white male bosses know better than you (sarcasm).

@SwimbleCold

Well, yes. But can you read his mind?

i don't need to read his mind, I've read his books. Isn't the main point of this thread that we should respect what other people refer to themselves as? Then do that, and do'n't think you know better than someone when they are talking about themselves.

Exactly. This thread is precisely about the OP choosing a designation that she prefers. Why not extend that courtesy to others, including public figures like Barack Obama? He refers to himself as black. That should be enough to accept that he embraces this identity, rather than speculate that he has been somehow pushed into it unwillingly.

There is an undercurrent in this thread that makes me very uncomfortable. The idea that racial designations are just too confusing and we need to forget about them really smacks of a lack of understanding of race and the racism that people face daily. Being able to forget about one's race is a luxury (one might even say privilege) that is generally afforded only to white people.

I'm Jewish and Hispanic so I'm pretty mixed myself. Here in the UK I identify mostly as Jewish but not as Hispanic as we don't really exist (that would still be my main ethnic description). My kids are mixed race but they don't look like it. In the US they'd be Hispanic (like me! ) But here I guess they're just plain white.

[quote RedMarauder]**@Lweji* are you always so fucking rude about how someone identifies their own* race and ethnicity?

The entire point of this thread is that you should respect how people self-identify their own race and ethnicity regardless of who they are.[/quote]
Are you always so fucking dim?

I'm speculating about Obama, not telling him. I would simply ask him if he was on the thread.

It's tricky. I personally hate being labelled as anything, I just want to be me, I don't represent anyone else and I don't want people to think they know anything about me just because I look a certain way.

I am European, half north, half south, and I was born in a third country that I don't share a heritage with. Cue massive surprise and confusion when I answer the usual questions about 'where I am from' as I don't look like the stereotype for people from this country. For some reason I also look a bit exotic or ethnic to some, and am clearly difficult to categorise for certain people.

I grew up without a dad so have no emotional or other connection to the southern part of my heritage, and it is always difficult to be treated as a 'representative' of sorts of southern Europe, when the surprisingly frequent discussions about my background come up. I have heard this explained as polite curiosity but I have to say I feel really uncomfortable when people start shoving their arms in my direction for a comparison of skin colour (happens every once in a while, bizarre I know).

It just stirs up all sorts of thoughts and emotions for me when people bang on about how dark my complexion is, or how I look like the nanny of my children as they are all blonde and fair.

I don't know what I am trying to say about the OP's situation as this is not a clear parallel, I guess I just sympathise with not wanting to be labelled as something that we don't feel we are on the inside. If guess if people could stop making comments based on the way people look, and making assumptions about ethnicity and race, that would be great, as things can be complicated.

@DolphinsAndNemesis to be honest with me looking 90% white I find it usually it is the asian side that refuse to let me 'forget' that I am white whenever I tried to integrate myself then the other way around....

It's impossible to get race right, IMO.

I know an Asian person that classifies themselves as black, and a black person that hates that they do that.

Most mixed race people I know identify publicly as
non-white part (assuming there is a white part, which obviously is not always the case) as that is how they are generally perceived. I don't think it's about erasing half of their identity, but it aligns more closely with how they are perceived in the wider world - their experiences are more akin to those of black/asian people than they are to those of white.

Honestly, I can barely remember the names of my cousin's children (I come from a BIG family), so if I don't remember that you have a preference to be considered black/mixed/purple with sparkles it's not because I am trying to be offensive - it's just because there are so many people identifying as so many different things it's freaking impossible for me to remember every permutation. And I will always apologise when I am reminded.

[quote lovepickledlimes]@DolphinsAndNemesis to be honest with me looking 90% white I find it usually it is the asian side that refuse to let me 'forget' that I am white whenever I tried to integrate myself then the other way around....[/quote]
I think you may have misunderstood my point. Perhaps I didn't explain it clearly. I mean that in a majority white culture, it is entirely possible for a white person to go about his/her day without thinking much about race. A black or biracial person can rarely do that, because of systemic and structural racism, in addition to the ways that race can be a significant part of daily interactions.

@DizzyPigeon I do think there is some truth to that.

It does somewhat put people that identify more with the people that don't look like the side they are more similar to culturally like me but in a way I have accepted that as part of life etc

I do want to somewhat shield any children I have from going through the experiences I did by while still telling them to be proud of their heritage I am reluctant to try to integrate them into a culture and community that will not accept them as much as my dm did with me.

@DolphinsAndNemesis that is very true and in Asia it will always be the other way around too. I don't think it's always done out of malice etc

Unfortunately, being white is something i understand to be quite "pure". not sure of the word i'm looking for. If you are anything other than this "pure" then you are black. In the UK and USA people are very binary about race, you will never be seen as white in the UK and will always be reminded of your blackness when dealing with systems and istitutions. You may not be black with 2 black parents but that's how you will be perceived. I feel like being mixed race, just means you're black but slightly more palitable, which is actually still a form of racism. Hope this makes sense