To lie about Santa to a child!

[santaself123]

NC for this as I know his family are on mn
It’s a bit of a long one, sorry!

I’m 16 weeks pregnant so I’m aware I could just be over emotional, and it’s not really that relevant right now but here goes anyway.

Last night I was looking for inspo for Christmas presents, I came across a kids “Santa’s treat” board for leaving treats on Christmas Eve. I made a joke to DP that he’ll have to be Rudolph as I’m not a fan of carrots so wouldn’t be biting a carrot to leave teeth marks!

DP said something along the line of “ or we could just not lie to our kid”

I thought he was joking but it turns out, after a short conversation, that he doesn’t want us to tell our child Santa is real! He says we shouldn’t lie to our child about Santa! He said we wouldn’t tell them God is real so why would be tell them Santa is!

Now here is where I might be wrong but Santa is the most magical thing in my eyes! It’s one of the things I’ve always looked forward to about having my own child! Making our own lovely Christmas traditions and just watching the excitement and anticipation of Christmas through a child’s eyes!

But I feel like he’s ruined it now! I don’t see the point in getting excited about Christmas now or ever if he’s just going to tell our child Santa’s not real as soon as the child can understand the concept!

I know I might be being petty to be upset as I suppose to most people it might not be a big deal but I just feel very deflated and quite disappointed!

So AIBU to be upset with him about it!

YABU- Santa’s not real and it’s not a big deal
YANBU- Santa’s magical and every child should have the chance to believe in him!

Yanbu

As pp said, you can tell the story and have all the traditions and trappings without saying it's a lie or true - just like with any other story. We don't go 'this is a lie' every time we tell a story or watch a show, and some kids will believe those are real for a while and some don't ever really get into that. Whether you say it's real or not doesn't change whether you use those fun ideas, it can change very little practically, it just changes your mindset - whether you're trying to share a tale & tradition, or trying to get a child to believe.

I think going with the kid's flow is most important. Some kids like the whole package, some kids hate/fear the idea of a stranger who can magically watch them and get into their house, some kids find a lot of what goes into Christmas overwhelming and stressful (I was in this last camp, so stopped celebrating it as a teenager).

I think an issue is when an adult continues to enforce their idea of the story and what a 'magical Christmas' (or any holiday) to their own ends, then it becomes a pageant for the parent's self-image, not traditions passing on. The kind of who tell kids if they don't believe or take part in X, they won't get any presents or refuse to change as the child changes and shows their own preferences because the parent's idea of how the child should celebrate is most important.

Some kids enjoy continuing the story even when they know it's fake/believe it's not true - my kids and I have been organizing our Día de Muertos all month, it's one of our biggest holidays of the year alongside New Years, and it happened to coincide with my DD getting RE homework to interview the family on beliefs. My kids all pretty much follow in their father's 'don't know, don't care' steps, none really believes in an individualistic afterlife or an afterlife at all, but they're still spending weeks talking about what we need to put together to welcome back our ancestors and dead loved ones. Not seeing it as true hasn't taken the shine off, if anything, it makes the traditions that much more connecting, it's all about remember and discussing these lives together.

YANBU, he just sounds like Scrooge. They only believe in Santa for 10 years max before they realise it’s all tosh. Let them have their fun and enjoy the magic while it lasts, let’s face it- Christmas isn’t really the same once you know the truth.

@artyandtarty

I really cannot stand all this 'Santa is magical' crap.

Explain what exactly is magical?!

Erm, he travels around the world as some ungodly speed so that everyone in the world gets their presents whilst they're asleep, pulled in a huge sleigh by flying reindeer. And that's after a while host of elves have worked all year to make the presents. What's not magical about that??

I remember my mum telling me in a really matter of fact way when I was about 7. Actually I'd already figured it out deep down but enjoyed 'believing' and wished she could have just left me to enjoy it for a few more years.

I'm biased on this topic because when I was little I thought Santa was an utterly horrific concept and was completely terrified of him. I enjoyed Christmas far more once I was told he wasn't real and honestly enjoy it as an adult more than I ever did as a child. I do agree though that for most, santa was harmless fun and noone was ever harmed by their parents playing along.

YABU

The real world is dull. It's nice to insert a bit of fun and magic before they grow up and get bogged down with bills and the daily grind.

Why do people get so het up over this? It's a bit of magic for kids, totally harmless.
Santa has been around for donkey's years, people usen't to over think every little fiddle faddle like this?
It sounds so bloody worthy to phrase it as you're not going to lie to your child (like anyone actually does, intentionally) while you scupper the magic of Christmas for them.
Fire ahead, but you won't get any woke points for it...

YANBU. It is magical for a child, & as a PP said no one has been left traumatised by the fact their parents lied to them about santa - if anything, I’m grateful they lied & carried it on as long as possible because once you stop believing it is just not the same.

Your DH is BVU comparing it to teaching your children to believe in god/religion.

YANBU. I haven't rtft, but I presume it's gone the way this well-worn topic always goes on MN - i.e. a vitriolic debate between the "Telling lies to your children is wrong / What's so magical about a man in a stupid costume? / Why do you even celebrate Christmas, you filthy heathen?" brigade and the "How can you be so cruel as to deprive your dc of a magical childhood?" brigade.

Both pov are ridiculous of course. 1) Fables, make-believe and shared family stories are not the same as lying. 2) The whole point of FC is that he is magical, and kids find him so 3) Other ways of making Christmas fun and exciting are available 4) It is normal for humans to continue to observe much-loved traditions and festivals originating from religious practices long after they've stopped believing in the deities.

YANBU he’s a child ffs. Christ can we just let kids be kids and enjoy a bit of magic.

Haven't read the full thread. Do agree with PP about not linking it to good and naughty behaviour unless you fully intend to follow through and not give presents! It's hard enough explaining why Santa gave little Johnny over the road an Xbox in his stocking when your kid only got a chocolate orange, don't give them the belief it's because they weren't good enough.

Re your DH's comment “ or we could just not lie to our kid”, I'd ask him if his plan to not lie extends to the following:

"Yes I'd love to read that story for the 70billionth time in a row"
"Yes your picture absolutely looks like mummy"
"Wow that was really interesting"
"I'd love to hear all about what Fred said to Billy at school today"
"Of course I love playing hide and seek"
"Now where is little Clara?" whilst pretending to not see the feet sticking out from under the curtain

Unless he plans to look your child in the eye when they dissolve in tears?

Parenting involves lots of lies! The key is to ensure you don't lie about the big stuff, so that they know they can trust you with that.

this whole lying is ridiculous. But then don't tell my DC the imaginary god either.

you don't create 'Xmas magic' by lying about Santa

Explain what exactly is magical?!

I highly recommend you read The Hogfather:

“All right," said Susan. "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."

REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.

"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—"

YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.

"So we can believe the big ones?"

YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.

"They're not the same at all!"

YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.

"Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point—"

MY POINT EXACTLY.

@BlueTitsRock

this whole lying is ridiculous. But then don't tell my DC the imaginary god either.

you don't create 'Xmas magic' by lying about Santa

Fairly ridiculous (and offensive post), really. I wonder why you bothered.

@rainyoutside not at all. I'm just wondering what the message is in his mind. If it's not a religious festival and it's not a magical time for children. What is it? What would you say to the child when they ask what xmas is about, why do we do x, y & z?
It could be a time purely for family & friends to connect, eat lots of food and exchange gifts. There's a big risk the child might feel left out at a time when it's supposed to be about togetherness. I remember a JW in my class at school who had to sit out of all direct xmas related activities which was very sad. Whilst I appreciate that was for religious reasons, kids can be vicious. Ie. You can't join in our group writing Santa letters as you don't think he's real anyway" x

It's just fun. There's a weird obsession on here with posters saying it's cruel because you're lying to the children. Childhood should be fun and magical! We were fortunate children but we didn't have a lot of toys or money. Make believe was how we spent our time!

Imagine children hearing about santa/the Easter bunny/the tooth fairy etc and their parents saying "none of those magical fun sounding things are real".

There's also a growing number of parents who don't tell their children of these things because they want their children to know it was them who bought the presents/easter eggs/put the money under the pillow. Which just seems selfish and childish, like they can't stand not having the glory and gratitude.

I imagine such parents forcing their children to only read factual books and watch documentaries because anything else is a made up lie.

I believed in Santa until I was like 10!! My parents never told me the "truth", they just said that Santa was magic. I gradually figured it out and have no resentment for being lied to LoL. I still stare into the sky on Xmas Eve looking for Santa flying past in his sleigh ;)

YANBU... I dont get miserable old farts that think like that, theres a difference between a LIE and childhood whimsy

are your kids not allowed to watch cartoons or films (that arent documentories) or read books (that are facts/autobiographies) etc... or have character teddie bears because those arent real either?

Santa isnt even 'fully' made up, Saint Nick was a real person who sold/gave all his belonging to help others, hes dead now but we honor his memory by giving gifts in his name - he is even known for having left gifts in stockings/boots.

I know a 'saint' is a religeous thing technically but its a real person who did good for others, is that really a horrible thing? I understand some may personally not believe in an unproven diety etc... but to not celebrate real life good actions because that person did seems extreamist to me.

and yes extra whimsy grew around 'Saint Nick' like flying raindeers but you know what cars and animals cant talk either but if you ban those you'll lose nearly every kids entertainement option (books, tv, films, toys, food/club/holiday mascots etc...) so it would be hypocritical to be fine with Bambi or leappad Scout etc... but then banning Rudolf lol

@WaterOffADucksCrack

It's just fun. There's a weird obsession on here with posters saying it's cruel because you're lying to the children. Childhood should be fun and magical! We were fortunate children but we didn't have a lot of toys or money. Make believe was how we spent our time!

Imagine children hearing about santa/the Easter bunny/the tooth fairy etc and their parents saying "none of those magical fun sounding things are real".

There's also a growing number of parents who don't tell their children of these things because they want their children to know it was them who bought the presents/easter eggs/put the money under the pillow. Which just seems selfish and childish, like they can't stand not having the glory and gratitude.

I imagine such parents forcing their children to only read factual books and watch documentaries because anything else is a made up lie.

totally agree

the 'I deserve the credit' brigade are the absoloute worst, people are never suppose to give to recieve praise in general but to distroy part of a childs whimsy just so they as an adult can demand praise from a CHILD is insanly selfish and immature

kiki I teach. Kids have written letters as illiterate historical characters. Don’t overthink it, seriously.

Well there's a big difference between not telling your kids that Santa is real, and telling them that he isn't. I don't tell my kids Santa is real, but they believe in him anyway, and if they ask, I just turn the question round-and ask what they think/how they think it works etc. I wouldn't feel comfortable telling them answers that I know aren't true. But that's different to telling them it's not real.

OP I think there is a middle way. I enjoyed all the santa traditions as a child, but I also knew from a young age that it wasn’t strictly real. I think my parents described it as make believe, but we kept the magic of it and I would still listen for the reindeer on Christmas Eve. Then as I grew older there was no great revelation about a lie.

I find it weird when parents go to great lengths to trick their children when the kids are getting old enough to separate make believe from what is pretend. That makes it a lot worse.

Also I really like that Santa wasn’t the main point of Christmas in my family. It was about a lot of traditions and we would talk about that and celebrate our family time.

I think once the baby comes he will change his views on many things!