Equal input from both parents?

[EL8888]

I got into an interesting debate with my partner earlier this week, my perspective is women do more for their children then men. During children’s entire childhood so not just skewed by pregnancy and maternity leave. I know this isn’t true for all parents but for the VAST MAJORITY.

My partner thinks this is untrue, that 50/50 is what the majority of parents manage and men truly do their share. He thinks I have a skewed perspective and simply can’t be right

What does everyone else think?! Am l being unfairly negative towards men like he thinks?

He's a funny one, your fella.

I think you're right.

And that's from me, who o count as having a much more involved DH than most other families we know.

Certainly more than most at DCs school. And more than any other dad in our family.

But even still I have done more than 50% of the parenting decisions and actions.

But then I work part time and him full time.

But when he's not working and at weekends etc then he does play more and spend more time doing things with DC if we're not doing something as a whole family.

He's much more exciting as I'm always there after school etc. Plus he naturally is a very fun and playful person as I don't do great with the pretend games and he's a lot more arty too.

Depends what you mean by ‘do’. House work, spending time with them, buying clothes, toys etc then probably women do more overall. But if you’re talking about how much influence they have that could be very different. My dad did fuck all when we were kids but he had a huge impact on the person I grew up to be.

The choice to keep or terminate a pregnancy is the woman's, the carrying of the child is down to the woman, the majority of maternity/paternity leave is usually massively in the woman's favour, in custody cases the child usually ends up with the woman unless she is a complete disgrace. So, it's hardly surprising that other aspects fall predominantly to women too.

Judging by most of the threads on here where pregnant women or mums are moaning about their useless partners, it’s definitely not the case.

Well, if he's an involved father then he's probably thinking of it through the lens of his own experience - 'I do 50%, therefore other men must do also'.

However, unfortunately the studies and stats out there confirm that the majority of the time the woman ends up doing more - though the gap has narrowed since the bad old days.----

Maybe sweetly ask him to find you a stat confirming this? And sit back and smirk Unfortunately, there are many terrible men out there who are really, really not equal partners.

Even my collie disagrees with him 😂

@Coriandersucks l meant in all sense -practically, emotionally etc

The debate was inspired by him saying custody battles are biased against men, it’s been irradicated in a lot of areas of life he thinks but not there. I’m like that’s probably as most women do more for their children and there are less dead beat / unengaged women out there. Plus most women do more for their children, then the dads do

Depends - my experience is most contribute fairly equally but in different ways. Putting bread on the table and shoes on their feet is contributing as much value (if not more) than bathing them.
Gene pool means each parents gives half usually. So contributes equally to future. Men can't do pregnancy, childbirth or breastfeeding, so I guess women win on that point. The argument might be whether that is for the child or for the mother though - the mother chose to become pregnant and give birth; the child was uninvolved in that decision.
Are women more likely to be the primary carers of young children? Clearly yes. That doesn't negate a fathers contribution though.

I agree with you.

How many women vs men change their working hours after their child is born?

How many women vs men can't cope with looking after their children overnight?

How many women vs men can't choose an appropriate outfit from the child's drawers, forget to feed child if mum goes out, call their mum/sister for backup if their partner goes out? (The first point is with regards to a poster who thought people were harsh expecting her h to work out what to dress their child in. No SN and he held a responsible job)

How many women vs men know what Father Christmas has delivered on Xmas Day? How many men vs women researched the best baby doll/Lego set etc and bought them in a toy sale months ahead so there was more money for Xmas treats in December?

Etc

Dads care and can do their parts like cleaning up sick or seeing to kids who cry at night but anecdotally, most men do not pull their weight during their partner's maternity leave and it takes a while for them to realise how hard it is looking after a baby and home- it looks like you do nothing but it's such a busy time. I think that many Dads imagine ML as mum watching Telly while baby sleeps or mum playing with child while he toils at work

You're right.

Anecdata, but I'm a non-bio mum and I really notice that, if people presume I'm 'the mum' and have a male partner, they think I'm a lazy shite who is inexplicably un-present in her child's life, because I don't do as much as most mums. OTOH if people know my partner is the mum, they are surprised I'm doing 'so much' because most dads don't.

I find that very telling of people's expectations.

I do more then 50% when we are both here i also have to organise and direct him in what to do when he does help (children and housework). He also works alot while I work part time so I'm on my own with them a lot more.
He doesn't even provide 50% of the money to fund them.
I only know one family where they father does equal or more then the mother so no your DH is living in a fantasy world.

@pandarific he isn’t sadly, we are having fertility issues. He did say l was being over sensitive about the topic due to this. I’m just like nah, it’s just because your wrong, rather than me being “overly sensitive” [confused

I think he’s drawing on his dad (very involved and engaged even back in the 80’s, cooking, childcare etc). As well as a good male friend of ours (has 80% custody for his children, very engaged and involved with them)

l meant in all sense -practically, emotionally etc
How about including financial? Then it's more likely to be 50/50 indeed.

Depends how you define things we “do” for children.
I think for couples with both parents that it is usually 50/50.
Housework I don’t really count as “for” children for example.

Yep. Vast majority. Also heard a lot of 'Oh, well my DH does that (refuses to clean/do bedtime/bath child etc), but he's a man so what do you expect'? My response is, I expect them to do it and - having a son - I will certainly be giving him what for if he doesn't support his own partner.

In fact, if he wants recent proof of that, the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) and University College London (UCL) interviewed 3,500 families and found that with both parents working or both parents at home due to lockdown in similar positions, mothers still did more housework as well as childcare (May 2020). Lockdown affected women a lot more because of this, but even before lockdown, mothers completed on average around 60% of the uninterrupted work hours that fathers did. An exception to this was where women worked outside the home and the father was at home, off work. Other studies also show similar outside of lockdown and that, though men's input has improved over the years, it is still less than women's input to child care of the couple's children.

@dontdisturbmenow yep l meant financially as well. Hmm l don’t think it’s as clear cut as 50/50 in that sense. E.g. if l drop from full time to 20 hours a week to care for our child (ren), my partner wouldn’t be “helping me” by paying for more things. I would be providing another 20 hours a week of childcare, that otherwise would need to be purchased from a nursery, childminder etc

I think many men probably think they do 50:50, but are oblivious of how much their wives/partners are actually doing, and so they don't realise that their perspective is skewed.

I definitely do more for dd than dh does, despite the fact that I work full time and am the main breadwinner. There are complex reasons for that, and I'm not necessarily unhappy with the balance, but I don't think he has any idea how much I actually do. Especially in terms of "emotional labour".

Haha. I've never met a man who does 50% even the so called househusband I know! The reality is that in my experience once a mother women consider their kids as part of the equation all the time whereas men seem to compartmentalise their lives. Men also seem to demand "me time"

Kids don't forget either, after we split (dc are young adults) dd constantly throws in her dads face how he never came to concerts, assemblies, parents evenings etc.

If you're talking about childcare and domestic work 50/50 is still very rare and this is certainly backed up by the threads you see on here. Yes there may be a reasonable and growing minority of families for whom its 50/50 but I think in the majority of cases its still the woman doing the heavy lifting.

CherryPavlova is right that if you include financial contribution it probably (though decreasingly) skews towards men.

But the problem with that analysis is that women's potential for financial contribution is significantly diminished by their inability to participate on an equal footing in the labour market after having children -- largely as a result of men's general reluctance to play their part on the home front. It shouldn't really have to be an either/or tradeoff between financial contribution or domestic contribution IMHO and I don't think its healthy. And having everything skewed towards one (usually male) breadwinner isn't very supportive of women.

@ EL8888
Show me the man who ;

Sorts out a babysitter when one is needed ?
Who makes the GP/dentist appointments and takes them there too ?
Who take time off work when DC is ill ?
Who does the school run every day ?
Who organizes the before/ after school club ?
Who shops for and buys his kids clothes ?
Who knows what size clothes his kids even wear ?
Who arranges school holiday childcare ?
Who plans and executes birthday parties/ sleepovers/play dates ?
Who keeps track of school uniform losses ?
Who plans and buys ALL school uniforms/ bags/ supplies etc?
Who washes and irons ALL kids clothes/ uniforms/ sports kit ?
Who plans and buys food for kids meals/ packed lunches etc ?
Who cleans DC room and washes bedding etc ?
Who knows what to get DC and buys ready for Xmas ?
Who wraps DC gifts and decorates house for DC Xmas ?
Who makes DC costume for school plays/ Xmas show/ Halloween etc ?
Who makes sure DC says thank you to everyone for gifts given ?
Who knows what DC is currently 'into' and buys accordingly?
Who will tell relatives what DC would want for birthday etc ?
Who can and will help DC when friendship issues arise ?
Who can soothe an injured DC and do first aid ?
Etc etc etc...........................

Please, please show me this man

It's definitely more common that it's nowhere near a 50/50 split, with the mother almost always doing the bigger share of work.

The debate was inspired by him saying custody battles are biased against men
I do think he is correct in his thinking about custody.

I think mums probably still do a lot more of the donkey work but, as another poster said upthread, my dad still had a massive influence on me being the person I am today. (I mean that in a good way). I'm not saying my mum didn't too but don't underestimate the input of a dad even if they aren't helping the kids with homework or whatever.

@billybagpuss

Even my collie disagrees with him 😂

Even the fleas on my collie disagree with him!!!

updownroundandround

Has hit it on the head.

It's our old friend the mental load isn't it.

They may be doing more of this stuff than they were in the 50s but how much can they do without being nagged and prompted.