Equal input from both parents?

[EL8888]

I got into an interesting debate with my partner earlier this week, my perspective is women do more for their children then men. During children’s entire childhood so not just skewed by pregnancy and maternity leave. I know this isn’t true for all parents but for the VAST MAJORITY.

My partner thinks this is untrue, that 50/50 is what the majority of parents manage and men truly do their share. He thinks I have a skewed perspective and simply can’t be right

What does everyone else think?! Am l being unfairly negative towards men like he thinks?

In terms of who is a main earner, I suspect its skewed towards men. In terms of who does most of the domestic and childcare and "life" work I suspect its very much skewed towards women.

I was the main earner in my marriage but still did 100% (I kid you not) of the "wife-work" and sorting out childcare - when it ended and I threw my ex out, I genuinely barely noticed he was gone in terms of money/childcare/school runs/shopping/housekeeping :(

In my marriage it's very much 50/50. Sometimes 60/40 or 70/30 but we always pull it back. It's very equal. That is not true of all families or even most of them. The mother is usually the primary input.

My DH is an extremely involved father. The idea that he truly does at least half of the work of raising a child is laughable. The evidence is in the pouncing I get the second I get home or out of the shower or even out of the bathroom.

@updownroundandround

@ EL8888 Show me the man who ;

Sorts out a babysitter when one is needed ?
Who makes the GP/dentist appointments and takes them there too ?
Who take time off work when DC is ill ?
Who does the school run every day ?
Who organizes the before/ after school club ?
Who shops for and buys his kids clothes ?
Who knows what size clothes his kids even wear ?
Who arranges school holiday childcare ?
Who plans and executes birthday parties/ sleepovers/play dates ?
Who keeps track of school uniform losses ?
Who plans and buys ALL school uniforms/ bags/ supplies etc?
Who washes and irons ALL kids clothes/ uniforms/ sports kit ?
Who plans and buys food for kids meals/ packed lunches etc ?
Who cleans DC room and washes bedding etc ?
Who knows what to get DC and buys ready for Xmas ?
Who wraps DC gifts and decorates house for DC Xmas ?
Who makes DC costume for school plays/ Xmas show/ Halloween etc ?
Who makes sure DC says thank you to everyone for gifts given ?
Who knows what DC is currently 'into' and buys accordingly?
Who will tell relatives what DC would want for birthday etc ?
Who can and will help DC when friendship issues arise ?
Who can soothe an injured DC and do first aid ?
Etc etc etc...........................

Please, please show me this man

I’m married to him.

But I’m very aware that he is an astonishingly rare example, sadly. He and I each work four days a week and everything is shared.

I haven’t read the full thread but in the OP’s example the husband thinks he does as much for the kids despite having not given up any of his working days, earning potential or pension contributions to look after them. So even without anything else, we immediately know that he is wrong.

He's utterly delusional women 9 times out of 10 carry the emotional load. They know all the teachers names. Arrange dentist appointments/playmates. Know where the birth certificates are. My (absolute cocklodger) ex would definitely say that we shared parenting 50/50....HA! No mate, we did not. He was like another bloody child.

He is right in my circle of friends tbh, childcare and house work is pretty evenly split in my house too.

Depends who you know. Amongst my closest circle it's more the blokes doing childcare and the women with high power careers; DP and I are 50/50.

I don't have any friends where the bloke does very little but I doubt my parents knew any parents who were even 50/50.

I think it's come a long way in a generation or two but the pay gap and a ton of sexism means in most couples in the UK the woman still does more.

My kids are amazing - because I took on the mental load and got them this far.
My DHs career is amazing because I allowed him the mental space to put in the extra needed to get there.
My once promising career has slumped, my headspace is a mess.
I don't think you can have a decent marriage, two progressing careers and lovely children, something or a significant percentage has to fail. Sadly, sometimes that is aspects of childhood, sometimes grandparents step in. But something has to give.

@MentalLockdown

My kids are amazing - because I took on the mental load and got them this far. My DHs career is amazing because I allowed him the mental space to put in the extra needed to get there. My once promising career has slumped, my headspace is a mess. I don't think you can have a decent marriage, two progressing careers and lovely children, something or a significant percentage has to fail. Sadly, sometimes that is aspects of childhood, sometimes grandparents step in. But something has to give.

Why does it to be overwhelmingly, and depressingly, the woman who has to make that sacrifice though?

There are more part time female workers than Male. What does he think the female workers do with their 'free' time? Why does he think they are more likely to be part time? Does he think there are more SAHM than SAHDs? If men are doing 50 50 why is the take up of shared parental leave less than 2pc? When he goes to school events, doctors and dentists visits childcare pick up and drop off, does he see equal numbers of mums and dads? The only times I can think of dads being involved is watching their kids play football or something for an hour a week

"My kids are amazing - because I took on the mental load and got them this far.
My DHs career is amazing because I allowed him the mental space to put in the extra needed to get there.
My once promising career has slumped, my headspace is a mess.
I don't think you can have a decent marriage, two progressing careers and lovely children, something or a significant percentage has to fail. Sadly, sometimes that is aspects of childhood, sometimes grandparents step in. But something has to give."

The 'give' can be shared with both parents. I know lots of families that manage to juggle, both have decent careers and amazing kids

@CandyLeBonBon because it makes sense to allow the person who is in a position to earn the most to be allowed to focus on work as much as is possible as that means more money for the family as a group. On average women tend to marry older richer men even if it is not by much.

I literally can only think of one couple where the parents were 50:50. That couple is in their fifties and the DC are in their twenties now. No one of my generation (early thirties) who I know is 50:50.

Even in the most progressive pairings the mum always does more/sacrifices more. It truly depresses me. My own relationship is 95:5 - it's grim. I will be forwarning my DD about this as I so wish my mum had educated me and it's safe to say it'll still be the case when DD's grown up

@Onxob surely it just becomes an endless cycle if you don't break it, it's all well and good telling your daughter it's wrong but actions speak louder than words and watching you tolerate 95:5 will have more impact than anything you say.

@CandyLeBonBon & @lovepickledlimes unexpectedly the years before we had kids my career was accelerating, in a male dominated industry and I was the higher earner with greater potential at the time.
As soon as word got out I was pregnant, work shifted, society shifted and we depressingly feel into line with it. That was 15 years ago, I think society has shifted a bit since then to even up the responsibilities.

I think you are right generally.

And that is coming from someone who lived with their Dad as their resident parent. I don't think the amount my Dad did is the norm, unfortunately.

[quote lovepickledlimes]@CandyLeBonBon because it makes sense to allow the person who is in a position to earn the most to be allowed to focus on work as much as is possible as that means more money for the family as a group. On average women tend to marry older richer men even if it is not by much.[/quote]
I was earning more than my now exh when I was pregnant. He refused to request flexible working and as else ended up having a child with additional needs, I ended up giving up a very lucrative career to ensure my child(ren) got the support they needed.

He told me he thought asking would make him look weak.

I now do the job of two patents, alone, earning a fraction of what I could be earning, because I was married to a man who wasn't prepared to value his wife, her career, or his family.

I think it would have been more interesting to poll ppl's actual experience, not what they think the situation is.

My husband and I are truly 50/50 and he pulled his weight even when DD was a baby. We really talked it through before she was born. Some of it was luck: we both managed to find jobs that enabled us to work from home part of the time (full time now). But also, he's just that type of guy.

Within our NCT group many of the dads did the "helpless" thing. I was a bit bemused to see the mums had to pack the changing bag and snacks when the dads took the LOs out, etc. But there were very hands-on dads, too. From what I could see in the majority of families the mums did a lot more.

I agree justmeagain91 I am in the process of breaking the cycle. I didn't tolerate anything - I've discussed this with him until I was blue in the face but to no avail so divorce is now the only way forward. It's just a pity it's come to this. So unnecessary.

The issue with polling people's experience is that it's still so subjective.

I think it's Cordelia Fine who has an account of how a significant number of men who gave answers for a survey about household chores claimed they did things like filling a dishwasher when there wasn't one in the house.

@dontdisturbmenow

3,500 families and found that with both parents working or both parents at home due to lockdown in similar positions, mothers still did more housework as well as childcare But he might do other things. He might be looking after the garden to make it safe for the children for instance.

E.g. if l drop from full time to 20 hours a week to care for our child (ren), my partner wouldn’t be “helping me” by paying for more things. I would be providing another 20 hours a week of childcare, that otherwise would need to be purchased from a nursery, childminder etc
So what you mean is direct care. That doesn't mean that the roles are not equal, just that the division is different with mother's doing more direct care and fathers more indirect care, but out together, likely to be 50/50ish.

This just made me laugh out loud. Men might be spending time "making the garden safe" while women do housework?? How utterly ridiculous. How big is this mythical garden that men have to spend time every day making it safe (bearing in mind that some kind of housework has to be done every day?)

Probably the stupidest post of the day.

Completely agree, the majority of women do the lion's share of parenting. Men who do 50/50 or even more are very rare. I don't buy into this ''custody battles are biased against men'' - how many men give up their careers, or stunt their careers when a child is born? How many take days off when a child is ill, for medical / dental appointments, make sure everyone's home work is done, they're fed, have clean clothes, shoes that fit, birthday / xmas gifts for the entire family, arranges schedules, does school runs, takes to parties and friends houses, deals with 'friendship drama', makes sure there is food in the house etc etc...

When men make an equal commitment both personally and professionally (whether married to the child's mother or not), fine let's talk about 50/50 but until then.............

ps. If anyone knows such a man, please have them PM me

Quite frankly, you just need to count the mums and dads at the school gates. And at parents evenings. And who volunteers for school trips. And attends school events. And who cut their hours the most during lockdown to home school. It's really not even a debate, it's a well documented fact!
(I believe we should all be aiming for 50/50, but it's clearly nowhere near for most couples)

I have 50/50 care of DD age 11 with my XH. I still do all the mental
Load relating to school, medical appointments, socialising/play dates, extra curricular activities and whenever Dhd has a problem , worry, question etc it's me She talks to

I work with families. Would your DH like to guess how many are headed by lone mothers with the father completely absent, as against those headed by a lone father with the mother completely absent? If you are looking at the nation across the board, these families need taking into account too, not just those of us on Mumsnet who point out that our own partner does X amount.
It is of course tricky to know how to count it if input is more balanced than 'all' or 'nothing'. Personally I earn the exact same as my partner, except I'm 0.8 and he's full time. So does he contribute more to financing the kids as he spends 8 hours s week more on it than I do (or 4 if you take off the 50% that is funding him and me). If he takes one to the emergency drs while I'm at home with the other, who is contributing more? What about when I ended up in hospital with that child and he's sleeping at home - he's asleep but still available for the child at home.
It is really tricky because contributions can"t be scored fairly.
However in the vast majority of households, women do loads more. If you include earning the money the gap narrows, but from a chasm to a slightly smaller chasm, not chasm to jumpable gap.