Equal input from both parents?

[EL8888]

I got into an interesting debate with my partner earlier this week, my perspective is women do more for their children then men. During children’s entire childhood so not just skewed by pregnancy and maternity leave. I know this isn’t true for all parents but for the VAST MAJORITY.

My partner thinks this is untrue, that 50/50 is what the majority of parents manage and men truly do their share. He thinks I have a skewed perspective and simply can’t be right

What does everyone else think?! Am l being unfairly negative towards men like he thinks?

I went through the list and removed those that were not applicable. I think there are a few missing but went with suggested and it does look reasonably equal.

Sorts out a babysitter when one is needed ? He did
Who makes the GP/dentist appointments and takes them there too ? Either of us
Who take time off work when DC is ill ? Depended - both sometimes
Who shops for and buys his kids clothes ? Both of us
Who knows what size clothes his kids even wear ? Both of us
Who plans and executes birthday parties/ sleepovers/play dates ? Parties him more often, sleepovers Both, play dates Me.
Who keeps track of school uniform losses ? Neither
Who plans and buys ALL school uniforms/ bags/ supplies etc? Him
Who washes and irons ALL kids clothes/ uniforms/ sports kit ? Him or school
Who plans and buys food for kids meals/ packed lunches etc ?Me
Who knows what to get DC and buys ready for Xmas ? He does big presents I do stockings.
Who wraps DC gifts and decorates house for DC Xmas ? Is that for children? We both wrap.
Who makes DC costume for school plays/ Xmas show/ Halloween etc ? Me - he made the Roman shield though.
Who makes sure DC says thank you to everyone for gifts given ? Both.
Who knows what DC is currently 'into' and buys accordingly? Neither
Who will tell relatives what DC would want for birthday etc ? Neither - get what is given.
Who can and will help DC when friendship issues arise ? Neither - theirs to sort out themselves.
Who can soothe an injured DC and do first aid ? Me.

I you are right and my DH shares a lot more tasks than I see on here and with friends.

I do most of the school and homework and medical/doctors stuff, near 100% of the buying clothes etc stuff, near 100% of the management of their social lives and absolutely 100% organising of holidays and day trips. Basically, I carry the mental load of our children and family life. I do far more hours of “childcare” if that’s what you call it and the vast majority of school runs. I do more housework although he does a lot too and he probably has more of the “mental load” of finance, car, house and garden maintenance.

He does 100% of the paid employment.

We (and our children) are happy with the split and the children are well cared for and have a good relationship with both of us. I couldn’t care less about how other grown adults choose to run their family lives.

The debate was inspired by him saying custody battles are biased against men

That is entirely in the hands of men to fix - it starts with an assumption of 50/50, and then changes that in the interests of keeping the children's lives as close to the same as possible. If mum did 90% of care before divorce, mum is more likely to get a high percentage of custody after divorce.

If men want 50/50 post divorce, they need to do 50/50 during the partnership (and perhaps that'll lead to less divorce too - win/win)

The vast majority of SAHPs and part time workers are women.

Men aren’t exactly out protesting on the streets for equality in that respect. More likely they’re keeping their heads down and enjoying the status quo...

@ CherryPavlova

I think it's fantastic that your DH shares these chores with you.

However, as all these jobs are often done solely by the Mum, even in relationships where the Dad thinks he's doing 'lots' for his DC and still lives with them, I'm still looking for the man who's still in a relationship with 'Mum' and living with her, who does all these things for his DC*.....................................

3,500 families and found that with both parents working or both parents at home due to lockdown in similar positions, mothers still did more housework as well as childcare
But he might do other things. He might be looking after the garden to make it safe for the children for instance.

E.g. if l drop from full time to 20 hours a week to care for our child (ren), my partner wouldn’t be “helping me” by paying for more things. I would be providing another 20 hours a week of childcare, that otherwise would need to be purchased from a nursery, childminder etc
So what you mean is direct care. That doesn't mean that the roles are not equal, just that the division is different with mother's doing more direct care and fathers more indirect care, but out together, likely to be 50/50ish.

IME, the average mother does more.

Tangentially linked examples are the proportion of mothers compared to fathers who walk away and do or pay nothing and also how families, friends and society tend to view those.

If it were generally equal contributions now as your DP suggests, why is it almost always a father who ups and leave then does and pay nothing (I'm not saying all fathers who split up do nothing. I am talking about those who do) and why is it generally acceptable for men to do this (and blame their ex for making contact difficult and presumably making it impossible to pay by some magical means) and completely unacceptable in the rare occasions when the mother does this?

Like CherryPavlova, things look pretty equal; some things he did better, some things I did better. I did lose my job when dc were little so naturally ended up doing more at home, otoh dh then took unpaid leave to allow me to up my qualifications. He never rang me when I was at work/training/socialising to say he couldn't cope with the children. Not once.

Men in my family have a long history of being involved in family life, and my FIL was a SAHD when dh was in his teens (much to the relief of the family as MIL couldn't cook to save her life).

@updownroundandround

@ EL8888 Show me the man who ;

Sorts out a babysitter when one is needed ?
Who makes the GP/dentist appointments and takes them there too ?
Who take time off work when DC is ill ?
Who does the school run every day ?
Who organizes the before/ after school club ?
Who shops for and buys his kids clothes ?
Who knows what size clothes his kids even wear ?
Who arranges school holiday childcare ?
Who plans and executes birthday parties/ sleepovers/play dates ?
Who keeps track of school uniform losses ?
Who plans and buys ALL school uniforms/ bags/ supplies etc?
Who washes and irons ALL kids clothes/ uniforms/ sports kit ?
Who plans and buys food for kids meals/ packed lunches etc ?
Who cleans DC room and washes bedding etc ?
Who knows what to get DC and buys ready for Xmas ?
Who wraps DC gifts and decorates house for DC Xmas ?
Who makes DC costume for school plays/ Xmas show/ Halloween etc ?
Who makes sure DC says thank you to everyone for gifts given ?
Who knows what DC is currently 'into' and buys accordingly?
Who will tell relatives what DC would want for birthday etc ?
Who can and will help DC when friendship issues arise ?
Who can soothe an injured DC and do first aid ?
Etc etc etc...........................

Please, please show me this man

tbf my DH does (did - mine are older now) most of those on the list (most not all) but from other couples I know, it would all be the mothers doing that stuff

The only men I've met throughout my life who have done 50%, and in these cases in fact more than 50%, care for their children are separated fathers who children live with them full-time or over 80% of the time. (The mothers walked out and left their children to them.)

Even in my case where my DP does step up to do lots of hands-on care I still end up doing more than 50%. My DP took shared parental leave and thought like many men he would be able to do a lot of things. In reality he couldn't cope doing any cooking or housework unless someone else was looking after her and still can't.

He could ask my two sons. They'll laugh him down the street.

nb divorced.

I could run up an 'off the top of my head' list of women who do all these things (and more) while married and working full time very quickly, lots of women do it......................

But I couldn't name a single man who I have ever known, or indeed heard of (unless he's a widower or lone parent) that does all these things for their DC..................

And really, that's why men don't get 50/50, because they've never done 50/50.

This is a difficult one. I would say that whilst that most women will do the most of the child rearing and home chores, it is also true to say that most men will, be the wage earners and as such will be contributing more that way.

I have 50/50 care with me ex. I STILL do the majority of care - all dental, doctors, homework, reading, socialising etc

Well my DH does all the washing and ironing. We'd always had an attitude of if the washing basket looks a bit full, wash it etc., But he started to do the laundry all the time when he was out of work a couple of years ago and felt he needed something concrete to do. Though he got a job last year, he's carried it on as he was working away from home during the week and felt getting the laundry done and dusted at the weekend was his way of helping to take the pressure off. He still does it now and I'm saying nothing (hate ironing)!

He'll happily book GP appointments and will take DS if he can get time off or is working from home. As I work part time though it usually falls to me if I'm off, which is fair enough. But even if he books/takes DS to GP, I'll be the one to remind him to check this or mention that. DS is a young teenager now so he can explain to the GP what's wrong but sometimes I'll have noticed something or know that DS has used an over the counter medicine and want to check it's not caused an issue. DS or DH would probably not think to mention it.

I'd probably say DH is a do-er dad. He'll happily cook, clean, take DS wherever he needs to be, book a birthday treat, go on line and buy clothes for him etc., BUT he'll need to check sizes, what colour to buy, how many is the birthday party for - that sort of thing. He'd say he's the admin and I'm the project manager. Give him a list and he'll get it done but he won't necessarily think of what needs to go on the list...

I voted yanbu even though my DH is probably close to 50%. We both reduced hours an equal amount for example. But things like who puts her clothes away (I dont put DH clothes away so it isnt like its my 'job'), in fact who buys the clothes, and toys and useful things she needs? Those things are all me. We have shared money so it isnt about thst but its the taking responsibility and sorting it out that seems to come down to me always. I dont mind too much but it makes it not quite 50-50!

@ horrayforharoldlloyd

Unfortunately, you're in the majority there. Most divorced Dads still leave the 'mental' load as well as the 'physical' load with the Mum.

We both work F/T, both in roles where we have flexible hours and can WFH, and we split the hands on time with the DC about 50:50 (school runs and taxi service, feeding DC breakfast and tea, activities, homework help, playing with them etc)

So if anyone looked, or if you asked DH, they'd say we do split things equally, and FWIW, I don't think it's a fair comparison to judge the split in couples where one works less hours than the other (as in those instances, I would fully expect the one that works less to do more of the childcare.)

BUT I have a managerial position and can work crazy hours (60hrs per week), and I earn about 2x what DH earns. So is it equal if we split things 50:50 If my DH had the more stressful/longer working job, would he expect me to pick up some of the slack?

AND the mental load is almost 100% carried by me. Things I do for the DC which DH is probably unaware of include:
plan and buy 90% of the presents
sourcing and buying clothes for both DC
research and book holiday childcare
arrange babysitters for joint nights out (if DH is organising a surprise for me, he will organise babysitters, but any other nights out is down to me)
plan and research education (choosing and applying for schools and the like)
plan the meals and buy the actual food
plan and book clubs and activities (including prompting the conversation about when they should start them)

I also manage all the finances, holidays, services etc, so the total household management load isn't 50:50 at all. But the visible childcare is equal so I'm considered lucky to have such a hands-on partner.

I don't know many couples where both work the same hours, but in those that do, I'd say it was similar. So I think your DH is living on cloud cuckoo land!

Show me the man who ;

We have a different list in our house, but generally, there’s a good half of the things on the list that fall to him, simply because he is the one who is home after school.

What we have found is though, despite all these places, dentist, physio, ASC, school having his number, and being asked to call him first, they still call me.

DD’s OT made a really shitty/sarky comment once when he was here for one of her appointments, “oh nice to see you, we don’t see you often” and I had to point out she would see him more if she contacted him to make the appointments like I had asked her to.

It’s not always their fault when things fall to mum.

I think in terms of the practical, day to day care and especially the mental load then clearly women do more.

But I do count DH working FT as 'parental contribution'. If we both worked FT or PT for that matter, I don't know how things would pan out in our house actually.

But with the earning money thing.. They were doing that anyway. Most men don't suddenly think they better up their hours or seek promotion in order to give more to their family. They do it o progress their career and would have done so anyway. Usually they can only do it because the mental and actual load of parenting is shouldered by the woman who has given up or drastically reduced their work. I think another way to look at it is assessing by ho much each parent's life changes after children. Judging by posts on here and anecdata, women's lives change beyond recognition, most men carry on much as before.

Of course there will be some men who do equal amounts for their DC (as highlighted by a few posters on this thread) but no, the vast majority don't. Some because they're lazy feckers. Some because they think if they're providing additional finances they don't need to. Some because they genuinely have never learnt that all this stuff is going on.

DH is brilliant, but he's the first to admit that he hasn't read a single email from school this year yet (and there have been a lot). He was forced to apologise a year or two ago when he was happily going ahead and making plans completely oblivious to the fact that it was DD's birthday party and that I was the one who had done the entire thing.

It is true that while DH is actually better than most men on some things, he's probably worse than most men on the organisational side as that is not a strong point (and that applies across his life, it's in no way selective), but it is not unusual for men to do less and to think less.

And I've lost count of the number of conversations I've had with women who are separated from their DC's dads who find it incredibly frustrating because their DC come back from Dad's house dirty, no teeth brushed, having lived on mcdonalds/takeaway, exhausted because they've gone to bed late every night etc. And I can openly admit that without me reminding Dh about this stuff, I'm sure that if we were separated I'd be one of those women dealing with tired, dirty, malnourished children every time they came back.

My DH is a very involved dad who does as much as he can for his son, but even he knows it's a drop in the ocean compared to what I do. For example, last week we had an important hospital appointment for DS so DH took the day off work to be there, equally involved as me. But I'm the one who did all the 'work' leading to this appointment and I'm the one who's dealt with the follow up calls.

It all depends on the guy, some really do put more work in their children than the mothers