Equal input from both parents?

[EL8888]

I got into an interesting debate with my partner earlier this week, my perspective is women do more for their children then men. During children’s entire childhood so not just skewed by pregnancy and maternity leave. I know this isn’t true for all parents but for the VAST MAJORITY.

My partner thinks this is untrue, that 50/50 is what the majority of parents manage and men truly do their share. He thinks I have a skewed perspective and simply can’t be right

What does everyone else think?! Am l being unfairly negative towards men like he thinks?

How many take days off when a child is ill, for medical / dental appointments, make sure everyone's home work is done, they're fed, have clean clothes, shoes that fit, birthday / xmas gifts for the entire family, arranges schedules, does school runs, takes to parties and friends houses, deals with 'friendship drama', makes sure there is food in the house etc etc..

ps. If anyone knows such a man, please have them PM me

My dad did!! 🙋‍♀️ It depends if an older gent is your type though now

But no, I know it isn't the norm generally speaking. But my dad did all of those things, I lived with him as the resident parent. He is bloody awesome, I love him

Not sure where the female sign came from there!

My sons dad had not seen him for 10 whole years so I agree. He found parenting tricky so fucked off like the loser he is. He came back and my then teen told him he doesn't want to see him.

isn't that the thing - that when men find parenting "tricky" they will shirk responsibility. Not necessarily by fucking off, but by leaving it to mum ("oh, sorry darling, I didn't hear little Johnny crying") or by hiding behind something else, like work or a hobby. Working in a male dominated industry, I can 100% promise that i have heard men actually saying things like "if we have the call at 6pm I can avoid bedtime". So DH gets home to his poor frazzled DW and can legit say "oh, sorry darling, I had an important call that I couldn't get out of".

During lockdown, in my totally scientific anecdata, i have witnessed several times, women at all levels (including the head of department in a FTSE100 organisation on the very first full dept meeting) being interrupted on zoom calls by the DC asking questions /needing help. But the only interruptions I witnessed with men were them shutting the door the on the crying child.

Not only does this mean that DW has to pick up the slack (very possibly at the detriment to her own career, as she knows she can't join a call at 6pm, or she can't put in a full shift during the day because she's too busy wasting time on mumsnet dealing with the mental load) but it means that DH's career will advance because he's there for the "important" calls, and the late evening chats, and is seen as being committed.

@WhatWillSantaBring it's amazing what even loveliest "modern' men actually say in front of me - before & after I had kids about their juggling their own families. There has been the odd exception and it made me think really highly of them as they ducked out of overtime because of children.
We need to shake up our own kids to take the correct level of responsibility in future families - I might be talking myself out of the benefits of grand kids but if it saves my daughters' mental loads....

@WhatWillSantaBring

OMG can I relate..... never have I been on a call with a man who said: Sorry, give me 2 mins, my child needs me.

I've said it countless times, have run out of work to collect from school (power cut etc), say 'no I can't make that meeting at 8pm'' or 'no, I can't go to Paris to meet X'' and yes I do believe it has been at the detriment of my career.

My ex however, who incidentally, works in the same industry as I do and earned less than I did before our child was born now enjoys a huge salary, owns a home worth 750K and takes 4 holidays a year.... All of which he achieved after he left, leaving me to raise our child (not long after my maternity leave ended).

I struggle to get by, haven't had a holiday in 10 years and will never own a home!

My DH was a very hands on dad(unusual for his generation) but the mental load was and is, mine

Probably yes, but men, if they work full time, plus travelling, should be credited with their contribution to housing, finances etc. When women also work full time, then it does fall more on women as the organisation of the home, childcare etc falls mainly on them. Many men are simply not there much of the time if the woman is on a work break or part time, but they do usually pick up the slack when their partner isn't there. Some men of course are a complete waste of space as fathers.

My biggest regret in life is having children with a man who is completely incompetent. I truly believe if I died my children would end up in care as their father just wouldn't be able to cope. I've done absolutely everything for my four children, their dad has never even changed a nappy, never had to get up through the night, never had to cook for them or clean, never done a school run etc etc. Now we have split up he sees them once a fortnight for a couple of hours, and i think he even struggles with that

This thread made me write down everything that DP and I do in terms of childcare, mental load and general life. It's 97:3 perhaps even less. I knew I did more but it was illuminating, no wonder I'm stressed half the time. I don't even know how sustainable it is long term and perhaps splitting will be easier? I don't know but I do know that women on a societal level and anecdotally from my group of friends/acquaintances that pick up the vast majority of mental/physical workload of life.

@updownroundandround

@ EL8888 Show me the man who ;

Sorts out a babysitter when one is needed ?
Who makes the GP/dentist appointments and takes them there too ?
Who take time off work when DC is ill ?
Who does the school run every day ?
Who organizes the before/ after school club ?
Who shops for and buys his kids clothes ?
Who knows what size clothes his kids even wear ?
Who arranges school holiday childcare ?
Who plans and executes birthday parties/ sleepovers/play dates ?
Who keeps track of school uniform losses ?
Who plans and buys ALL school uniforms/ bags/ supplies etc?
Who washes and irons ALL kids clothes/ uniforms/ sports kit ?
Who plans and buys food for kids meals/ packed lunches etc ?
Who cleans DC room and washes bedding etc ?
Who knows what to get DC and buys ready for Xmas ?
Who wraps DC gifts and decorates house for DC Xmas ?
Who makes DC costume for school plays/ Xmas show/ Halloween etc ?
Who makes sure DC says thank you to everyone for gifts given ?
Who knows what DC is currently 'into' and buys accordingly?
Who will tell relatives what DC would want for birthday etc ?
Who can and will help DC when friendship issues arise ?
Who can soothe an injured DC and do first aid ?
Etc etc etc...........................

Please, please show me this man

Me, but I’m his only parent so its cheating. Plus gay parents don’t have the BS of gender roles impacting their relationships.

Hes wrong obviously, but not many of us like being wrong.

Plus contact etc is nothing to do with treating parents fairly, its about the best arrangements for the child/ren involved.

Statistically it's just a fact that women do more with their kids than men. They're more likely to do school pick up, attend parents evenings, more likely to organise playdates, sort out extra curricula activities, supervise homework, buy clothes, research schools, do more of the day to day care. Obviously it's not as one sided as it would have been 50 years ago and it's not true in every household but in general it's just a fact that women do more.

Dh and i do different things for ds

Probably yes, but men, if they work full time, plus travelling, should be credited with their contribution to housing, finances etc.
I feed! So tired with these father bashing thread. Yes, women do more for their kids overall but it doesn't make them superior or a bigger contributor to their family.

Fathers could have a thread about how despicable it is that their partner contribute so little to the DIY, house and garden maintenance.

Of course posters will come up and say 'I do all the diy', just like if some men found their way in MN, they could say that they do more childcare than their wives'.

The reality is that fathers are more likely to work longer hours, have a li fer commute to work and more stressful jobs.

Women are not super human beings whilst men are just useless. Only on MN do we get such sexist attitude.

Even when my late husband was still himself, before the alcohol got hold, he didn't do 50%. And we both worked full time.

One of our first rows discussions came about when he said doing the food shopping didn't count as something I did, because it was 'an outing' for me.

Should have noticed that as a red flag.

@updownroundandround

@ EL8888 Show me the man who ;

Sorts out a babysitter when one is needed ?
Who makes the GP/dentist appointments and takes them there too ?
Who take time off work when DC is ill ?
Who does the school run every day ?
Who organizes the before/ after school club ?
Who shops for and buys his kids clothes ?
Who knows what size clothes his kids even wear ?
Who arranges school holiday childcare ?
Who plans and executes birthday parties/ sleepovers/play dates ?
Who keeps track of school uniform losses ?
Who plans and buys ALL school uniforms/ bags/ supplies etc?
Who washes and irons ALL kids clothes/ uniforms/ sports kit ?
Who plans and buys food for kids meals/ packed lunches etc ?
Who cleans DC room and washes bedding etc ?
Who knows what to get DC and buys ready for Xmas ?
Who wraps DC gifts and decorates house for DC Xmas ?
Who makes DC costume for school plays/ Xmas show/ Halloween etc ?
Who makes sure DC says thank you to everyone for gifts given ?
Who knows what DC is currently 'into' and buys accordingly?
Who will tell relatives what DC would want for birthday etc ?
Who can and will help DC when friendship issues arise ?
Who can soothe an injured DC and do first aid ?
Etc etc etc...........................

Please, please show me this man

That's my husband. These men do exist, i know lots of them. Most women just seem to have vanishingly low expectations when choosing partners.

You’re definitely right. It’s still the case that most men go back to work full time after a fortnight paternity leave whereas many women are at home for 6-12 months with the baby. A lot of women then return part time because they’re obviously attached to said baby and don’t want to leave them in nursery too much. Once they get older it’s usually the Mum who does the school runs in my experience anyway, I don’t see anywhere near as many males during the school run. Not only that but it’s generally Mum who organises everything within the house whilst usually also working. It’s old fashioned but it’s still the case for most families I’d argue.

Oh and also there are far more single Mothers than Fathers. Quite often the Father is completely absent or just pops up once a week to take them out for the day.

My father did very little housework but paid for every single thing I ate, wore, played with or lived in for 17 years.

My husband and I share both our financial responsibility as parents and the direct care of our kid.

I think the percentages are starting to even up, more men are taking paternity leave while mums return to work, the same with stay at home Dads. I think a lot is based on geography and varying cultures. I’ve known and worked with lots of men who are the primary carer for their children. My DH has spent the last 7 months being the primary carer for our children while I’ve been unable to do it. He might not do things like I would but that dosnt mean he dosnt do it.

I grew up in a house where is you asked my mother she would say she did everything, I totally disagree, my dad was a hard working blue collar man who worked full time but cooked & cleaned just as much as her ( though it was never good enough), I remember him looking after us when my mum worked, taking us to Drs appointments, school, changing my younger siblings nappies etc... He was never a man who said it’s a woman’s job. My Nan was a tough woman married to an abusive man, she made sure all 7 of her sons knew how to do housework and pull their weight. I also have 2 brothers, very blokey blokes both tradesmen, who are the same, one of my SILs has not done washing since she met my brother, he dose it all cooking, cleaning, shopping, gets his kids ready for school, takes them to clubs etc...

My FIL is very different though, his mum did everything for him, then his wife, then is 2nd wife. He’s never changed a nappy in his life and would rather pay a cleaner to clean his house than do it himself.

In my social circle I know:

• widowed dad who does it all (and easily did half before his wife got ill, too)
• totally equal dad who also does all the school runs
• resident parent dad with an alcoholic ex wife who is a disgrace
• man who receives all school emails and mum never does, as he’s responsible, whilst she does high powered job

But... your husband is being ridiculous. These are exceptions. Tell him to open his eyes and count the men at the school gate, at parties, at activity drop off... yes he’ll see men. But not 50/50!

I think the problem is that a lot of women just 'get things done' without making a fuss about it, so the dads don't even know it has been/needed to be done.

For example, I live with my partner and his son, and I do so, so much more than I think he thinks I do. For example all the washing, cleaning and shopping gets done while he's at work, I cook our evening meals, make a packed lunch for DSS, constantly keep an eye on what he might need, if his clothes still fit him etc. It's not that he doesn't want to pull his weight, because he will absolutely do things if he's here like the washing up or the garden etc, just because I spend more time at home (WFH) I get more time during the day to do these things, so they just get done. I don't think he realises how much washing, drying and ironing I do, or how much effort it takes to keep the house clean and tidy, or the effort it takes to do the shopping and plan for meals, packed lunches, possible trips out etc. It's like my brain is on high alert 24/7 making sure things are done, and while he's not lazy by any means, and it might look like we split things 50/50 when he's here, there's A LOT that goes under his radar.