To largely agree with government guidelines over Covid-19

[Plentyofshit]

I rewatched BJ on Andrew Marr yesterday. I’m afraid that everything he said made sense to me. I agree that there have been big mistakes - but - from what I can see - this hasn’t been the smoothest ride for any European country, particularly those that have been badly hit.

@Plentyofshit Just because you are, doesn’t mean everyone else hit by this will be.

The medical professionals know more about this virus know. We know what medications can help those effected. The NHS is able to cope better. It was all new to us in March. We aren’t overwhelmed at this point. We also have 3 Nightingale hospitals sitting there, unused.

I think we need to be slightly more concerned about the fall out of Covid in respect of cancer treatments being delayed, not forgetting the 3 million cancer screenings that were missed due to Covid and the Government’s messaging, as well as not being able to have straightforward access to a GP.

Do you believe that another lockdown will protect the vulnerable long term? The virus is going nowhere. Once Liverpool are allowed out of their tier 3 system, it will spread again.

' Or even working with landlords, mortgage providers, energy companies, councils etc to look at how they deal with people who are struggling to pay through no fault of their own'

www.gov.uk/government/news/jenrick-extends-ban-on-evictions-and-notice-periods

Organisations do have advice and help in place for those struggling due to covid restrictions .

@GetOffYourHighHorse Thank you, and thank you for your posts x She had to take some awful medication yesterday to clear her out. Also took it a few weeks ago before colonoscopy - and she nearly called out an ambulance because it affected her so badly. All my brother’s said is that this time it was worse. But she’s in hospital, and I’m waiting by the phone. Her surgeon, everyone I’ve spoken to in the NHS have been truly wonderful. Also Action for Carers.

Oh op I'm sorry it must be so stressful

It is one of my biggest worries that any family member needs hospital and we can't visit. The staff in the NHS are brilliant though youre right and she will be in good hands.

I think that the response to the pandemic overall has been awful, especially being far too late in many instances.

SAGE suggested online teaching at universities at least a week before many students went or went back. Many would have stayed at home if that had been announced then and been compulsory for all universities. The rise in the last two weeks is mostly of students, and most could have been avoided, with possibly no instances of effectively being confined to their room (see the other thread).

A timely response would also have meant elective surgery and treatments resuming sooner, and with fewer Covid cases, perhaps fewer people would be frightened to visit the doctor or hospital.

@VillageFete. A medical professional from intensive care posted on here. Everything that she said made perfect sense to me. My mum’s cancer treatment wasn’t delayed by COVID. So there may be good and bad media surrounding this. I myself need an ultrasound, and this IS being delayed which I accept because I’m hoping my issue is not urgent.

Absolutely, sorry OP and I wish for a speedy recovery for your Mum.

This government have been an absolute shambles since the beginning of this crisis. Where's the 'world beating' Test and Trace system? Why are people being paid six figures to type into an Excel spreadsheet? Why have thousands of people been left to die in care homes whilst the rest of us were encouraged to go out and eat cheap food?

While we're on the subject, there's the fact that it took too long for the government to decide to lockdown (everyone in Europe left scratching their heads once again at decisions made in this country . . .), shutting down large areas of the north of the country and not London despite higher rates of infection in some areas oh, and let's not forget the 10pm curfew which has resulted in crazy scenes in most major city centres in the country.

Prior to this we had almost every kid on the continent back in school except ours.

Now we're told that basically it's all our fault that we're back in this mess again.

It's a disgrace and I really hope there is an enquiry when all this is done. Only then may there be any accountability for the mess they've made, but I'm not holding my breath.

Yes - I believe the COVID measures will prevent deaths - and I hope the Oxford vaccine will be around after Xmas. I can forego my income, lifestyle and live very frugally until then.

'My mum’s cancer treatment wasn’t delayed by COVID. So there may be good and bad media surrounding this'

Yes, same here op. Urgent treatment has continued, routine stuff postponed .

As I said earlier the media are all so negative continually, some people lap it all up. We need unbiased reporting but sadly the shouty Jezza Kyle style headlines about 'shambles' and 'civil liberties' are all we have.

@AllesAusLiebe Yes - but I do believe the guidelines are there to protect us and that we should follow them. Even if Track and Trace is a shambles, it helped to protect my family. I don’t want anger against the government to stop us caring for each other.

@Plentyofshit That’s only one medical professional though. My mum and sister are both medical professionals too; one is actually working a red ward (Covid ward) at present. Each will have a different story/experience.

Unfortunately for us, my MIL’s chemo was delayed. Unfortunately for us, a family friend had his cancer diagnosis too late. He’s in his 30’s and it’s now stage 4. It was only diagnosed 2 weeks ago, after him trying to get screened since April.

It’s a mess. It may not be a mess in your part of the world, but it is in the majority.

Hope your mum is on the mend soon. I’m glad things weren’t delayed for her.

@Plentyofshit

I don’t want anger against the government to stop us caring for each other.

That, sadly, is the concern, I agree. I do think it is partially human nature that people will turn against the guidelines and the government and perhaps inadvertently cause someone else a great deal of harm.

This is the same government who encouraged 'snitching' on your neighbours and promised fines for people walking their dog more than a couple of miles away from their house, though. I think that this type of politics breeds viciousness and a lack of kindness.

@VillageFete I’m so sorry to hear about your friend - that’s terrible. Also your MIL. And my best wishes and thanks to your mum and sister. I want to relieve the pressure on the NHS by following guidelines, and using Track and Trace? E.g - if I now have some indication that I’ve been exposed, I would stay well away from my mum during her recovery to avoid her going into hospital, and potentially passing it on to someone like your mum and sister.

@VillageFete precisely. Here’s a link from the institute of cancer research website which explains quite well what delays do.

www.icr.ac.uk/blogs/science-talk/page-details/cancer-and-covid-19-how-coronavirus-has-delayed-vital-cancer-treatments

They key bit: According to the charity Macmillan, urgent GP referrals for suspected cancer in April alone were down 60 per cent, to around 80,000. That equates to around 9,000 missed or delayed cancer diagnoses. Cancer Research UK has said around 2.5 million tests or treatments have been missed because of COVID-19.

@Plentyofshit so there are people who will be getting treatment, particularly now, but many more will have missed their window, which is tragic. We had extra hospital capacity but failed to use it.

I think also the government has spectacularly failed to make the link between the health of the country and the economy, it appears to be either/or in the narrative. Put simply, we must have a healthy population in order to have a strong economy. Particularly as we start to see more effects of long Covid. Today there are reports that it can cause hearing loss. There’s a delicate balance, of course but some of the decisions being made e.g 10pm curfews and opening venues that serve food and alcohol owe w lot to powerful lobbies rather than science. If it were down to the science we’d have been given the evidence when the questions were asked last week.

And there’s no chance of a vaccine after Christmas. The trials time was overly optimistic. I think there has been remarkable progress made and I do believe there will be a vaccine in a short timeframe, compared to the general 10-15 years, but manufacturing it and distribution will take ages. I personally think we will still be living with this in a year.

@Runssometimes - I’m in no doubt of that. I do think my mum’s been incredibly lucky - and there have been terrible failings. But surely the best thing to do now is follow guidelines, download track and trace, and use whatever we have to stop the pressure on the NHS? I had a message from my mum saying ‘I’m fine’ btw. It really helped to vent a bit on here yesterday.

I think one of the biggest problems is the lack of enforcement of the rules. If the police were left to get on with their job and the army drafted in to enforce Covid measures then let’s see if the actual rules work. Too many people are fed up with it and have openly admitted they won’t comply. So let’s use these rules and these local lockdowns but enforce them properly rather than go for a full circuit breaker that will destroy the economy even further but still only serve to suppress the virus for a little longer. Nothing will make this go away.

@Plentyofshit yes, we should follow guidelines. But I’m not sure they’re the right ones and unfortunately the government have lost the trust of people and they won’t follow the guidelines. Plenty of people openly saying - they won’t stop me going on holiday/seeing my family/having birthday parties. But then government ministers and advisors haven’t followed the guidelines and suffered no consequence so what did they think would happen?

@Runssometimes I think it’s a case of - whatever other people say or do, or however much the government have failed, however much hypocrisy is out there - I know that if I behave in this way, it could save someone’s life.

@madasamarchhare I do have faith in the vaccine.

What do you mean education was a priority? They cancelled GCSEs and A levels and most children missed a whole term of school.
I hate to think would have happened if it wasn't a priority.

@madasamarchhare what?! So, martial law is what you're advocating because of a handful of people sunbathing on the beach or visiting relatives?

Insane.

Also, please provide some evidence that wide scale breaches are occurring amongst the general population.

@Rosebel ???? They had to minimise interaction between people to control the infection. Schools closed not only here but in Europe. Are you seriously suggesting that they keeping them open would have helped control the first wave?

And a measure that was not needed?

They are Tories so their primary concern has always been the economy. They’re not really bothered about the 43k people who have died or their families, they’re just bothered about how much those people will cost them. When they used the tag line ‘protect the NHS’, it wasn’t because they actually care about the NHS (they’ve been stripping away at it for the past decade.) On the contrary, it’s because they were arsed about how much thousands needing hospital beds would cost.

The furlough scheme was initially generous but they only did it for as long as they could deal with. They opened the retail and most of the hospitality sector after three months and offered the EOTHO scheme to get us all out there again, spending money.

They’ve never prioritised education, they want primary school kids in school so their parents can go to work. They’re not bothered about little Lucy and Jackson from Rotherham, they just want their Mum and Dad in work so the economy can keep going. If they actually cared about education, they wouldn’t have been stripping away at that for the past decade until most schools are on their knees.

Bojo was hospitalised with it himself but it still hasn’t altered his stance. They lost most people’s respect with the whole Cummings fiasco. People quite rightly thought it’s one rule for them and another for us and have been rebelling ever since.

@AllesAusLiebe

www.ft.com/content/d214ef31-7a5c-4bb5-894f-17c7057ab999

And worryingly, that’s people who were exposed. I cannot believe they all have had no alternative due to work or other needs. There’s an element of - “it’s not that serious” or “I won’t get it” thinking going on presumably.