To largely agree with government guidelines over Covid-19

[Plentyofshit]

I rewatched BJ on Andrew Marr yesterday. I’m afraid that everything he said made sense to me. I agree that there have been big mistakes - but - from what I can see - this hasn’t been the smoothest ride for any European country, particularly those that have been badly hit.

Saying labour would be worse isn't helping your I'm no Tory stance OP. And no, not every other country sent public money to buy faulty PPE or to the high ups mates. Nowhere was going to get it perfect obviously, but we're not all as bad (as it appears from the outside) as Boris Inc attempts.

I would imagine rapid procurement of PPE was the priority - to save lives. I do believe this has now been achieved. Is it better to spend more, bypass normal channels to get the equipment rapidly - or doing things slowly but with less mistakes (spend less/choose better manufacturers)

@RuggerHug

No they did not prioritize education.

Secondary school children were thrown under the bus in favor of primary so that their parents could work which is an important function but not prioritizing education at all. If education was a priority y5, y10 and y12 would have been the priority years to send back to school. Plus the exam fiasco should have not happened once it was clear that the algorithm was "mutant" If education was a priority they would be paying the costs of cleaning schools and investing. Instead they are hiding the true figures of Covid in schools and winging it

But they didn't....They essentially purchased magic beans at a ridiculous price that wasn't going to work? Did you miss the faulty bit?

Not the old Corbyn would be worse argument please. He's gone, move on. And as for Wales doing worse, well their hands are tied aren't they because Whitehall pulls the strings and refuses to communicate. As for Eid, imagine the outrage if that had been done on Twitter in Christmas Eve. No respect, no regard.

@ruggerhug - agree, but was the majority of the PPE purchased useless? And were mistakes made because it was needed very urgently?

@NandosPeriometer as far as I’m aware, primary schools were prioritised in Denmark - not sure about other European countries. I understood the idea was children more in need of childcare would return so parents could work. The exam fiasco was awful.

Plentyofshit Just apply that thinking to anything else. They bought an antibiotic that didn't work and actually caused more damage. They didn't bother checking it met standards or worse it didn't occur to check. But they got it quickly so it's all ok? Is that what you mean? That's the inexcusable bit. They cocked it up and will do it again unless they're held accountable/change their ways. Do you really think it's ok? I'm not having a go I promise, I just can't get my head around 'oooops' for such a massive 'mistake'.

@luckylavender to dismiss as ‘not the old corbyn argument’ doesn’t really explain why it’s not a valid point. Much as ‘not the Sweden argument again’ doesn’t really mean anything’. I imagine there would be outrage if a lockdown was announced Xmas eve - however if this is the best way to protect people, I would follow. Also, I know the risks - so would not plan a big celebration anyway.

@RuggerHug no - I don’t want to have a go either, I do like hearing other views - it’s helps to form mine - particularly in areas where I’m not knowledgeable. Surely some PPE would have been better than delays and nothing - there was a HUGE demand for it - and it simply wasn’t there. If someone faces death - is something better than nothing?

@Plentyofshit

Why is the Track and Trace system useless - it works for me? As far as I can see it works for the majority...

I see your "majority" (on what basis?) and raise you my "majority" of people who can't get the T&T app -

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4033330-Tracing-App-iPhones

@Plentyofshit

Surely a labour government would have been more likely to overspend?

Why?

If it doesn't work it is as good as nothing though. It's more that they either thought they'd get away with it or didn't think to check the safety of what they were providing the medical staff. I'd find it very hard to trust anyone with that incompetence. Not to side step, but if I lived in the UK it's be an indicator of what checks/cop on they'd have for what comes in after Brexit if they didn't suss this before handing over the cash.

With medicine - that could cause harm, it could damage you irreparably if wrong. PPE is not a harmful medicine in itself, much as a bandage won’t hurt you in itself. But you rely on it to do it’s job...

It's harmful if using it means your front line staff aren't protected. If they can't care for patients what happens then? That's why it was such a serious cock up. (To use the technical term)

@DynamoKev always thought Tories were pro austerity, and Labour anti

@Plentyofshit

Having read a bit about the vaccine trials in Oxford, they are working flat out with some amazing people in charge. I think track and trace would have been an incredibly difficult thing to implement - but it’s working for the majority? There would be errors with any news system. I feel my taxes are being well spent.

Please note, the Oxford vaccine trials are not a government initiative so let's not give Boris the credit for that!

Agree huge teething problems for Track and Trace, it’s not great - but I would say even a large number of people fuming about it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work everyone. For every 1 person fuming = 5 who don’t have a problem?

[quote Plentyofshit]@DynamoKev always thought Tories were pro austerity, and Labour anti[/quote]
Not sure what relevance you think that has to Covid.

In any case the Tory party has made many claims to have ended Austerity in recent years -

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49577250
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-45733098

You have given no indication why you might imagine Labour would "overspend"

even a large number of people fuming about it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work everyone.

Are you even fucking serious? That is EXACTLY what it means.

@Plentyofshit
Buying and giving out PPE that doesn’t work does do harm. 1. You are then putting healthcare workers lives at risk as they could then be infected and become seriously ill. 2. Healthcare worker could be infected, not show symptoms carry on working but passing it to other patients as the PPE that is meant to protect both staff and patient isn’t working.

Also they not only went about buying PPE that wasn’t working, giving out contracts to companies with no proven record but they were delivering PPE that was out of date that had been relabelled at the beginning of the pandemic. I have a relative (working in healthcare) who had to source his own PPE for himself and his staff as he couldn’t trust what the government had issued them.

Well I live in Brighton & one of my team's partners had to have a test ahead of a procedure. Advised to go to Oldham, which was also locked down at the time. Another had to pay £170 each for tests for his whole family in order to get tested.

And the Corbyn argument is useless because you cannot prove it one way or another. It's what people use when they have nothing else to say.

As for Sturgeon whatever your politics, she's stood firmly in the eye of the storm, every day. She's also hampered by Whitehall.

@Timekeepspassing - I agree it does do harm, as you are relying on it to protect you, and it doesn’t do its job properly. But my point was - the PPE simply wasn’t there. In the speed to procure it, big mistakes were made. What would the solution have been?

@luckylavender I still think it is useful to speculate how other governments would have handled the crisis. I think Keir is strong. I always equated Conservative to less spending, however I do agree that this hasn’t been the case in recent years.