To largely agree with government guidelines over Covid-19

[Plentyofshit]

I rewatched BJ on Andrew Marr yesterday. I’m afraid that everything he said made sense to me. I agree that there have been big mistakes - but - from what I can see - this hasn’t been the smoothest ride for any European country, particularly those that have been badly hit.

I’m really glad you posted this thread. I have similar views to you. I admit that the government have made mistakes but I also think they’ve done great things to protect income and within the NHS.

As a family we are in a unusual position. I work in intensive care and my husband in hospitality as the main wage earner. Without the furlough we’d of lost our house, not every country received such support, and for that I’m incredibly grateful.

The first wave was overwhelming for all. As an experienced critical care nurse with over 15 years experience I’ve never witnessed some of the scenes I saw in March/April/May. But... I was never without PPE although we did need to be mindful not to waste it. All patients had the equipment/medications needed, admittedly modified/alternatives but entirely acceptable. Staffing was tough but redeployed staff came promptly and were a true god send for us all. Extra beds which could cater for specialist equipment were created quickly- amazing speed really. Elective surgery recommenced quickly in our trust although many patients declined as they did not want to risk hospital admissions- totally understandable. Our mental healths took a beating and it was truly exhausting, but I couldn’t think of anything different that could of been done in our setting. On the whole I feel prepared to face the next wave physically, and things don’t feel as tense as it’s become ‘the norm’ now, but emotionally many still haven’t recovered. Many are now taking anti depressants (me included) to stick a plaster over our experiences, both at work and those we’ve had to endure in our home lives.

I am not particularly political to be honest. I can recognise huge mistakes have been made, but I struggle with the notion that absolutely everything is a disaster. Can nothing positive honestly be seen from the things we have achieved?

She actually did get seen to pretty quickly, although she had to initially pay for a private sigmoidoscopy - she was then fast tracked through the NHS with speed. However, had this all happened around now, I think she’d be in trouble. And my heart goes out to any other family who is going through this. The app went on my phone immediately - because my thought process was - at least I have something. And tbh, it did stop my brothers family interacting with her when my nephew had potentially been exposed to a case.

Can nothing positive honestly be seen from the things we have achieved

It could have been worse?

@pippa12 I’m sobbing, think I’ve got to stop posting! THANK YOU! And I know people just like you are looking after my mum today. I will do whatever I can to support what you do. That was exactly what I needed to read. I’m on the anti depressants too, but they are helping me pull through this. Very best wishes to you, you are a hero.

@Pippa12 what a refreshing post for mn! I have family and friends working in critical care and like you they had everything they needed. Of course there was distribution issue with ppe but the way the msm portrayed it you'd think it was everywhere and constant.
I've heard of some ICUs that have dedicated psychologists available for the mh needs of their staff, do the media ever report this? Of course not.

Yes I’ve had a lengthy phone call off a psychologist to help...

It could’ve been so much worse, no vents, run out of sedation/paralysing agents, no staff, no beds, no dialysis... it could’ve been so so much worse...

Did anybody read the report of the Spanish nursing homes where the nurses abandoned them and they died of neglect. Our wonderful amazing carers out there, some of them moving into the homes to protect their patients... PPE provided, slowly but it got there.

Not saying everything has been great, but those who think it couldn’t of been worse... in my opinion you are poorly informed.

'Not saying everything has been great, but those who think it couldn’t of been worse... in my opinion you are poorly informed'

Yes and it is that balance that is so badly needed. Of course the media need to scrutinise and highlight failures but they should also highlight positive stories. People rightly worry about the mh of the nation yet the media are in such a powerful position but only report the worrying stuff!

Our local Trust had hundreds of thousands of pounds chucked at them for critical care, staff with shielding close family members were put up in hotels. Not ideal but still better than putting their family at risk.

People seem to need reminding constantly this can't be cured, only controlled and we need to carry on (or for some start) complying.

I agree too. It is an extraordinarily difficult situation and I have huge sympathy for all those in charge whether that be the country, the local hospital, the local school , the local supermarket. It is hard at whatever level. I think the Gov are doing there best with all the competing demands.
Take yesterday’s announcement. Yet again the media this morning full of people telling their highly unique circumstances and seemingly unable to read the guidelines for themselves and use their brains.
Now I don’t blame these people no doubt they responded to a shout out by the radio station.
No doubt if the gov had announced a 2 week lockdown instead the airwaves would be full of sad stories about business owners affected.
Whatever they do another group will complain.

Hope your mum is ok, OP.
Apart from the stupid (brief) attempt to get people back into offices who could do their jobs from home, and the utter mess of universities, I don’t think the current restrictions have been too badly handled. Not perfect by a long way.
BUT...

• Boris didn’t even bother to go to COVID planning meetings at the beginning of the year until things got really bad.
• The massive number of deaths in care homes - why did the UK fail to protect the most vulnerable?
• The government were determined not to use public sector and local expertise and instead outsource to companies like Serco who have a track record of messing things up.
• The appalling lack of transparency in giving massive contracts away to small companies with no obvious experience several of which have links to Tory donors. As someone said on here, if you are responsible for a £16k contract in a local authority you have to tender openly, demonstrate value for money etc etc. Corruption is a strong word, but there are very obvious ways of guarding against it and they all seem to have been abandoned. Why?

And there are loads of positive. The clinical trials in this country are world leading and are really helping the world find potential solutions. The uk is really at the fore front with this. The nhs trials are the biggest in the world because of the whole nation approach to healthcare we have here where hospitals work together and the public willingly putting themselves forward for trials.
It is amazing, well done the uk public!
Not to mention the vaccine trials and research being done here, well done UK!
I am not sure what research NZ for example is adding to help the world? Seems they have closed shop and are waiting for the rest of the world to come to their rescue.

Not saying everything has been great, but those who think it couldn’t of been worse... in my opinion you are poorly informed

I don’t think anyone has said that it couldn’t have been worse

Of course it could have been worse

'Boris didn’t even bother to go to COVID planning meetings at the beginning of the year until things got really bad.- The massive number of deaths in care homes - why did the UK fail to protect the most vulnerable?'

But this is completely normal for PMs, their Secretaries of State deal with emerging issues. China played it all down remember?

Care home deaths have been high everywhere. Sadly they are the most at risk group. The patients couldn't be kept in an acute hospital for months once they were clinically ready for discharge and also hospitals were a high risk area.

At that stage, in the absence of widespread testing care homes should have isolated any resident that they accepted from hospital as they would in a noro outbreak. They should have used the most basic infection prevention and control measures. I hope inquires will highlight why this does not seem to have hapoened in all care homes.

Not saying everything has been great, but those who think it couldn’t of been worse... in my opinion you are poorly informed

It could have been a lot worse.
It could have been a lot better.

The NHS and other groups have gone above and beyond to look after people.

The furlough scheme has been pretty good.

The testing system has been appalling.
Eat out to help out - what effect did that have on infections?
Universities - should they have reopened for face to face teaching?

Mixed messaging about return to work in the workplace.

Local lockdowns - are they working? If they are so effective, why are cases rising in areas that have been locked down for ages?

Do you agree with thousands of people in Liverpool being told their place of work is being closed down from Wednesday, and that they have to live on 67% of their income for the foreseeable, whilst still having to pay 100% of bills/rent/mortgage?

@VillageFete I would prioritise people’s health, the NHS and measures that are taken to control the infection.

faq.covid19.nhs.uk/article/KA-01106/en-us?parentid=CAT-01040&rootid=CAT-01021

[quote Plentyofshit]@VillageFete I would prioritise people’s health, the NHS and measures that are taken to control the infection.[/quote]
What effect on people's health and the NHS does being forced to live on 67% of your income have?

It’s better than absolutely nothing like other countries and I believe it’s in line with other European countries scheme.

What is the alternative?

I agree with the highest tier, i live in one, my husband is in hospitality. It’s tough... but I understand it’s essential till we find another way.

@Plentyofshit Is mental health included in that? Would you feel the same if it were you on 67% of your wages, panicking about being able to feed your family and keep the wolf from the door?

You can believe that our shambles of a Government did a good job all you like, but how can you agree with their policy of those Liverpudlians (And soon to be how many other people from other Cities) being forced to live on 67% of wages?? At the very least it should be 80% like furlough, but even that seems like a slap in the face.

Personally? I’m not working because I may need to lockdown to care for my mum. We - as a household are living off 40 percent less income. We have food, although I’m rationing it for myself quite a bit. Heating on only at times we need, wearing jumpers, cold showers/less showers. No holidays, we camped in the garden. To me her life is the priority for now, and I will retrain or return to work when I can @chomalungma

@Pippa12 We don’t live in other Countries. We live in this one. Those people are hard working tax payers. The alternative is 100% of their wages.

@VillageFete I’m not in a great way, but am managing my mental health with anti depressants because I believe the health of the elderly/at risk/vulnerable/NHS is greater than my needs.

I also want my children in school. So - in my situation - so long as I can get access to food (I’m not eating a great deal), be warm - and not get kicked out of my house - I’m ok.

[quote VillageFete]@Pippa12 We don’t live in other Countries. We live in this one. Those people are hard working tax payers. The alternative is 100% of their wages.[/quote]
Or even working with landlords, mortgage providers, energy companies, councils etc to look at how they deal with people who are struggling to pay through no fault of their own.

'It’s better than absolutely nothing like other countries and I believe it’s in line with other European countries scheme'
Yes it is of course far from ideal but a pandemic never is sadly.

Op, how is your mum doing?