To think this pandemic has provided deep insight into people's character?

[rosesbloom]

I have found it quite illuminating seeing people's reactions. Friends and family members I have known for years have surprised me. It is like this situation has acted like a catalyst to reveal people's true nature, values and character.

A friend I had known for years and thought was a kind and empathetic person said the vulnerable just need to accept that they will die if they catch it and everything needs to carry on as normal. I have an underlying health condition she doesn't know about. I just sat there in stunned silence.

It has even shown me things about myself I didn't realise. It has shown me how anxious I am about my health, usually all those worries are internal and I keep them to myself but they have had to be brought out into the light when I explain to friends/family why I don't feel comfortable going for a meal in a restaurant at the moment despite it being "allowed" and "COVID-19 secure". Even though I know I engage in risky behaviours all the time like driving a car, crossing a road, etc it is like I have a blind spot with accurately assessing COVID risks.

Have any of you had any surprising revelations from people?

I have been shocked at how little understanding some public sectors workers have of how dependent they are on the private sector to raise the revenue that pays them.

Some of them seem to think their salaries drop straight from the magical money tree, into their bank accounts. And if we all lockdown for ever more, that wouldn’t/shouldn’t affect them financially.

And some are determined to blame it all on the Government while taking NO responsibility for following the guidance at all

When people see the likes of Cummings breaking the rules and getting off without even a sip on the wrist, Johnsons ghastly father flouting rules and regulations re: travel and mask wearing and getting off with it, the PM flitting off to sh*g his latest fancy piece in contradiction to all govt instructions, government contracts for specialised equipment and services being awarded to pals of cabinet ministers, who have no expertise in the field and who just cream off the cash while not providing what they were contracted for and getting off with it, MOs sitting in Parliament without masks (which they should have - it's their workplace) - then of course people will break the rules!

Cummings and the Johnson family seem to do what the heck they like without any repercussions and this makes many people think that things can't be as bad as they are making out - and many others think that if the "big shots" can do it, they they can too.

Appropriate behaviour comes from the top. Except that it doesn't, and it's very much "do as we say, not as we do".

And then there are all of the confused and downright contradictory instructions - and we've all seen threads on MN from people who are looking for loopholes to break restrictions, and everybody has an exception that they feel should be made for them because of their particular circumstances.

There is a huge swathe of the population which is going to be thrown under the bus financially due to the pandemic, while the rich will continue to get richer from it. And the govt doesn't just not care - they are actively encouraging the sacrifice of the vulnerable in care homes, and those people in poorly paid (esp service industry) jobs.

I just hope all of this is remembered at the next election. And also that Labour has a better leader by then too, because Starmer has been a disappointment.

I've been surprised about people (IRL) and on MN that cant think outside of their own circumstances.
The STAY AT HOME its not that hard ...
What dont you understand about having to self isolate?
Completely ignoring that while they stay at home, doing a job they can do from home, possibly saving money by not commuting, "doing their bit/abiding by the rules " other people HAVE to go out to work, to enable them to stay at home!! (As well as others in non essential jobs that cant be done from home)

@TheKeatingFive

I have been shocked at how little understanding some public sectors workers have of how dependent they are on the private sector to raise the revenue that pays them.

Some of them seem to think their salaries drop straight from the magical money tree, into their bank accounts. And if we all lockdown for ever more, that wouldn’t/shouldn’t affect them financially.

Remember public sector workers pay tax too!

Yes, I have noticed this. In some cases it was as I expected but some others surprised me.

I had a zoom meeting a few months ago now with a socially related group that I haven't interacted with together for a long time - 20 years for many of them. The one thing that I really noticed was the degree to which many of them were basically unquestioning of authority, which I hadn't realised about many of them as individuals, and especially not about the group as a whole.

Remember public sector workers pay tax too!

Obviously.

They don’t raise tax revenue though. Crucial difference

You’re pretty much proving my point to be fair.

Many are not that well paid, binmen, nurses, etc. They have carried on and actually I don't see them criticising the private sector.
I have heard doctors and nurses wanting more restrictions, but only because they saw how hellish ICU and Covid wards were in March-May and don't want anyone to go through that again this winter, either staff or patients.

@BeNiceLikeIRL - Yes, and they get that back with interest in their triple lock defined benefit pensions!

@wheresmymojo

Those that go on about deaths from loss of livelihood, domestic violence, etc due to lockdown.

I've found that everyone I know who takes this view is suddenly interested in groups they've never before taken an interest in because it allows them to think they aren't just being selfish.

In reality all the people I know using this line haven't done anything for people suffering domestic abuse before and are now all of a sudden their biggest champions.

They aren't losing their livelihoods and have never expressed particular interest in other social injustices before but now it's their favourite topic to talk about.

They don't even seem to see the hypocrisy of labelling me a 'sheeple' for following the rules while wailing about the injustices of lockdown when it's me and my husband that have both lost our jobs and are facing bankruptcy while they are untouched.

What's really happening is that they don't like the impact the rules are having on their own lives and have simply latched on to a way they think they can argue against them while not looking selfish.

But...we see you.

If you weren't bothered about this causes before and now suddenly are when conveniently they align to you not being able to do what you want, don't expect the rest of us to be so stupid that we don't see through it 🤷🏻‍♀️

In reality all the people I know using this line haven't done anything for people suffering domestic abuse before and are now all of a sudden their biggest champions.

In reality, all the people I know talking about protecting the vulnerable from Covid, have never cared much about them before, and are now their biggest champions. A lot of people are just scared and want to lockdown so they feel safer, but they say it is in the name of the vulnerable.

Works both ways.

@BeNiceLikeIRL - Really? My friend was sat in ICU bored and twiddling her thumbs due to the lack of patients arriving?

They have carried on and actually I don't see them criticising the private sector.

No one said they were criticising the private sector.

I said that they didn’t seem to understand how huge falls on private sector revenue due to lockdown would ultimately affect them.

[quote fromdownwest]@BeNiceLikeIRL - Really? My friend was sat in ICU bored and twiddling her thumbs due to the lack of patients arriving?[/quote]
I don't know what you are personally going through here and I assume you abstained from the clapping, but most ICUs were utter hellholes with people dying on their own and just the nurses to hold their hands.

I have been surprised that people don't understand how the NHS is funded..and that if the economy dives and people don't work the NHS cannot function. So many people don't seem to understand the basics.

[quote fromdownwest]@BeNiceLikeIRL - Yes, and they get that back with interest in their triple lock defined benefit pensions! [/quote]
There is no triple lock on public sector pensions. They are index linked (usually CPI rather than RPI) but no triple lock, that's on state pensions.

How very dare people take a job in the public sector and make use of the pension scheme on offer as part of the terms and conditions. They should all be made to forfeit them.

@TheKeatingFive

They have carried on and actually I don't see them criticising the private sector.

No one said they were criticising the private sector.

I said that they didn’t seem to understand how huge falls on private sector revenue due to lockdown would ultimately affect them.

It's not really the job of a nurse to understand the role of private sector. They are paid to look after the sick and dying, comfort relatives, clean up sick and poo, administer medicines and monitor vital signs. Understanding finance is not part of the job description and doesn't make any difference to how well they do their job. They don't criticise you for not knowing how to do nursing, so why are you criticising them for not understanding finance (though they might, who knows - they are individuals).

I was just about to post about the plonker posting about the burst water main and “don’t you know there’s a pandemic on!” and I saw that they’d posted on this thread still believing that they are the reasonable one! Incidentally I thought about this today, passing a burst pipe. All the fault of the government, of course, and the water board because there’s a pandemic . Warden Hodges lives among us...

It's not really the job of a nurse to understand the role of private sector.

And no one said it was. However, you’d think they’d have a passing interest in how their society works, how the NHS is funded and where their salary is sourced from.

Not least to understand the implications for them if that source is not able to function, for whatever reason.

That’s not ‘understanding finance’ that’s just understanding how your society works.

Understanding finance is not part of the job description and doesn't make any difference to how well they do their job
They don't criticise you for not knowing how to do nursing, so why are you criticising them for not understanding finance (though they might, who knows - they are individuals)

This makes no sense. Understanding how the economy works is part of life, it’s nothing to do with your job.
Do you think all private sector people work in finance?? I work in the private sector. Nothing to do with finance. I know how the economy works. It’s fairly important.

I don't think you have to "understand finance" to understand what funds the NHS! Nurses have to have degrees if my understanding is correct so I am sure they have, or should have , basis understanding of how the economy works. My comments were not aimed at nurses but as a whole the general public doesn't seem to grasp that saying at home to be "safe" will ultimately end in the demise of the very institution they think will keep them safe.

@SoUtterlyGroundDown

This is a silly comment - one person delivering shopping safely to the doorsteps of 20 people a day is much safer for society as a whole than all 20 of those people going and mixing in public. We also pay police officers and doctors/nurses and fire fighters and roofers and drivers etc to take risks we don't want to or can't take ourselves

Except a person choosing to become a police officer, or fire fighter, or roofer knows the risks involved before choosing that occupation. A supermarket food picker doesn’t.
The point is that people are crying for ‘strict lockdown’, not even acknowledging the fact that that isn’t possible if they want to remain fed (food delivered to them safely in their houses at their convenience), with functioning electricity and water supplies, and emergency services there if they need it.

And police officers and firefighters are usually pretty well paid and have good benefits. Unlike supermarket workers or delivery drivers who make low pay and often are on contracts that give them just short of the hours needed to have benefits.

And that doesn't even get into agricultural and food workers at the most basic level.

But I think this gets at the basic problem with all of this which is there are a number of impossible logical and practical binds in the thinking. Somehow everyone stays home so we can care for the vulnerable but somehow we still have a functioning system for necessities.

Or at the same time we are supposed to keep the very vulnerable and elderly safe from death and not restrict them to homes while we all go about our business, but then locking down results in the elderly being restricted to homes etc. So the real decision then is between the elderly being isolated for an unknown period time which will mean until death for some, and being in society with a risk of death from Covid.

We are supposed to have kids learning effectively and not locked away, and parents able to work, but keep teachers absolutely safe and the old who might contact them or the kids.

Trying to run things with these incompatible or impossible demands ends up with bad results.

A friend of mine works in a (reasonably well paid) public sector job. She wfh over lockdown doing around half hours on normal pay. She said at the start of lockdown how great it would be as "we" would save so much money by not going out.
I pointed out that for a lot of people lockdown was a period of not earning any (or as much ) money.

A relative has totally shocked me. I don't complain about things bit I really want to complain about her. What do you think?

She is a nurse, high up, senior nurse in her department.

She has continued to visit very vulnerable relatives including her bed bound 91 year old mother. She also frewuenrly a very close younger relative who has illness that put her in the shielding group. That relative has told her repeatedly not to visit people! She also has a granddaughter age 12 who is shielding and her daughter is ill but not shielding.

She sees nothing wrong with visiting these relatives and nothing we say stops her.

When a doctor told her to treat a patient who had a non-covid cough she told me that she told the doctor to fuck off. I don't think she did, but the way she speaks to everyone else I could perhaps believe it.

She and her partner tested positive about 2 weeks ago. Maybe she'll finally see why these rules are in place and nurses should do their bit outside hospital too and stick to the rules.

She makes me very sad, but angry at the same time.

@SoUtterlyGroundDown

Understanding finance is not part of the job description and doesn't make any difference to how well they do their job They don't criticise you for not knowing how to do nursing, so why are you criticising them for not understanding finance (though they might, who knows - they are individuals)

This makes no sense. Understanding how the economy works is part of life, it’s nothing to do with your job.
Do you think all private sector people work in finance?? I work in the private sector. Nothing to do with finance. I know how the economy works. It’s fairly important.

So why do you think the public sector don't understand it?

It is the government imposing the new restrictions, not nurses, firefighters, bin collectors, etc.

I think your argument is with the government specifically.

I think it’s a bit rich to accuse people of being selfish because they don’t want to sacrifice their economic and mental health (ie more restrictions) so you can have less chance of catching a virus. Lockdown has affected people differently and there is a cost being paid by the young or younger people to protect older people. People are not necessarily selfish for not wanting to pay that price any more than the elderly are entitled for expecting it. There are two sides and it’s not ageist to suggest that more vulnerable people should stay in rather than everyone.

Ultimately people are just people and have flaws.

I have no idea whether or not the public sector understand how finance works. What I have heard many many times from numerous individuals is that we should lockdown to be safe but not understanding the wider implications! Amongst those people I imagine there are people from all sectors..I don't think anyone is saying a whole sector fails to understand as that makes no sense. There is just a wide-spread misconception..("as long as we are all safe hun...!)